[kicked it in the sun]

so as i understand it, balconies provide both extra space not counted toward FAR (so basically a "free" bonus on living space) and satisfy an open space access requirement so that they're scored as amenities spaces. parking requirements still stand in most of the city. personally, i'd prefer a regime in which FAR was mostly out the window in favor of building envelope with some height limits very occasionally (to preserve an urban streetwall, to avoid shading a park), with only requirements pertaining to mandatory ground floor retail (on all arteries/high streets, and corner lots) and possibly setbacks in neighborhoods where the street-widening of yesteryear has left narrow sidewalks.

to me, frankly, something like what concord did at liberty village, i consider it a travesty, it feels like a neighborhood in shenzen, and it's all by design.

 

[maestro]

Okay. Density distribution is far more important to designing a functional and pleasant city than height. Concord had nothing to do with Liberty Village. It was planner's best intentions made a travesty by a lousy developer targeting international investors who could care less what the place looked like.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Balconies don't count as amenity space under the zoning bylaw. Amenity space has to be accessible by all building residents.

What it does count as is a good selling feature, and it doesn't count towards GFA or tower floor plates either I believe. For legal purposes balconies are treated as part of the common elements of the condo, and maintenance of them is shared. It's the reason why people can be "locked out" of their balcony, because they don't technically own them, the condo corporation does.

 

[kicked it in the sun]

^ ah, thanks for the clarification. so it's the FAR bonus and the market bringing about the balconies then. i wonder if it's a sophistication thing - in cities where people have been living in buildings and towers for a generation or more, balconies are virtually non-existent.

 

[interchange42]

So you're saying that with more sophistication comes more disconnection to the outside world? That's a high price to pay.

42

 

[kicked it in the sun]

^ well, i mean sophistication in terms of market sophistication - ie. a greater familiarity with various modes and forms of building living. that is, i was more thinking that since most canadians grew up in single family homes with yards, they are accustomed to having that space and the balcony is a sort of proxy for it. not just BBQs, but like that indoor/outdoor portal and ease of access. no data, but i'd be willing to guess that canadian builders are doing balconies at the highest rate in the world.

people in places that have a longer history of living in buildings (virtually all european and asian cities, much of northeastern USA, san francisco, etc) may not necessarily see the value of a balcony because they think about their living space differently. the balcony is, in some sense, a transitional amenity as people move from single family home to city. they were very common in commie blocks built when russian cities were first urbanizing too (and have mostly disappeared from new construction in the decades since).

again though, it's hard to tease out how much of this is demand, how much is developer read of market information (correct or not) and how much of it owes to the simple fact that since balconies are excluded from FAR, the marginal cost is low enough that they might as well include them. simply including them in FAR would surely reduce their number very substantially, as they'd become much more expensive. imagine you have a decision between building balconies of adding another two floors...

 

[interchange42]

Real estate brokers regularly tell developers that the average condo purchaser wants a balcony. We have a pretty sophisticated real estate industry in this city who work hard to get sales. Some people think that "anything will sell", but it's not true: when developers mess something up, they have to rejig their offerings. Very few buildings offer no balconies. Many offer some suites with no balconies. At a number of buildings, the selling point is that they offer larger than typical balconies. Finally, in some buildings you'll find suites with terraces, and those are typically snapped up first. If balconies were not needed to get sales on most suites, developers wouldn't offer them as they just cost money to build, but in fact they have the easiest time selling suites with balconies, so they build them.

42

 

[maestro]

^ ah, thanks for the clarification. so it's the FAR bonus and the market bringing about the balconies then. i wonder if it's a sophistication thing - in cities where people have been living in buildings and towers for a generation or more, balconies are virtually non-existent.

The high rise boom in Toronto is a couple generations old so it's definitely not about market maturity. It's just one of those nuances that separates one market from another. Toronto has always built balconies so balconies are expected by the market.

 

[Edward Skira]

The developers I've spoken to about balconies hate them and would not include them if sales didn't require them.

 

[G.L.17]

...so I came across these on Kirkor's website:

 

[ADRM]

...so I came across these on Kirkor's website:
View attachment 98775
View attachment 98777
View attachment 98778

I mean, that'd be hands down the nicest Kirkor project if that ever actually came to pass, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up.

And, sweet Jesus if Mirvish-Gehry winds up looking anything like it's depicted in that render, I will literally explode.

 

[maestro]

The design loses me after the podium. The skyline perspective is pretty awful too. A wedding cake with three tiers that don't relate to one another. Kirkor just doesn't have the talent to do something like this.

 

[bmiller]

The Mirvish and Gehry have been dumbed down in that render so the Kikor project stands out. In reality things will be different. Fairly typical promotion.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

You can also see the Gardiner's York loop ramp still.

 

[Ramako]

I'd much rather they stuck with the original brutalist design for the site.