- Thread starter Northern Light
- Start date
Bibi L
Active Member
Amare
Senior Member
Ughh why cant this just be 2 separate towers attached to the podium if they're intent on going with this design. Or at least attempt to marry the east and west balcony treatments together in someway if you're going to stick with the current iteration.
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
...some of us can only hope that they make the centre business an atrium.
Bibi L
Active Member
…some of us can only hope that they don’t build this.
Bibi L
Active Member
City won’t allow 2 towers. Only one.
Bibi L
Active Member
After looking at this, it appears that the parking garage will be shared with 25 The Esplanade, but not in the way it is currently being shared.
Currently, the parking lot under Novotel (45 The Esplanade) is already shared with 25 The Esplanade. However, Novotel (45 The Esplanade) only has access to P1. The entire parking lot is owned by Silver Hotel Group, which also owns 45 The Esplanade. None of the parking lot is owned by the condo board for 25.
However, 25 The Esplanade has a contract with Silver Hotel Group that reserves P2 and P3 for residents, accessible behind a gate. This means those levels are not public, unlike P1, which is public, for hotel residents (Novotel, 45 The Esplanade), office workers and retail at 35 The Esplanade (1st and 2nd floors of 25 The Esplanade), as well as for anyone else, since it’s public.
So that means, with this development, P1, P2, and P3 will all be shared, with P1 designated for residents of future 45 The Esplanade, visitor parking, and hotel parking, while P2 and P3 will primarily be for 45 The Esplanade residents and 25 The Esplanade’s current parking. Our parking won’t change much, except for how we will lose some spots, and P2/P3 will not be fully 25 The Esplanade parking only. P1 will still be public? Because hotel, visitor, and some 45 The Esplanade parking is still going to be there.
Currently, P2 and P3 being reserved for 25 The Esplanade residents has 244 monthly spots, but after the parking lot is severed there will only be 118 for 25 The Esplanade.
Looking at this for 45 The Esplanade, it shows 64 parking spots for 45 The Esplanade on P2. And 66 spots for P3.
Right now, 25 The Esplanade has 244 spots throughout P2 and P3, but after this, we’ll have 118. 45 The Esplanade throughout P2 and P3 will have 130 spots. Total will be 149.
Currently, the parking lot under Novotel (45 The Esplanade) is already shared with 25 The Esplanade. However, Novotel (45 The Esplanade) only has access to P1. The entire parking lot is owned by Silver Hotel Group, which also owns 45 The Esplanade. None of the parking lot is owned by the condo board for 25.
However, 25 The Esplanade has a contract with Silver Hotel Group that reserves P2 and P3 for residents, accessible behind a gate. This means those levels are not public, unlike P1, which is public, for hotel residents (Novotel, 45 The Esplanade), office workers and retail at 35 The Esplanade (1st and 2nd floors of 25 The Esplanade), as well as for anyone else, since it’s public.
So that means, with this development, P1, P2, and P3 will all be shared, with P1 designated for residents of future 45 The Esplanade, visitor parking, and hotel parking, while P2 and P3 will primarily be for 45 The Esplanade residents and 25 The Esplanade’s current parking. Our parking won’t change much, except for how we will lose some spots, and P2/P3 will not be fully 25 The Esplanade parking only. P1 will still be public? Because hotel, visitor, and some 45 The Esplanade parking is still going to be there.
Currently, P2 and P3 being reserved for 25 The Esplanade residents has 244 monthly spots, but after the parking lot is severed there will only be 118 for 25 The Esplanade.
Looking at this for 45 The Esplanade, it shows 64 parking spots for 45 The Esplanade on P2. And 66 spots for P3.
Right now, 25 The Esplanade has 244 spots throughout P2 and P3, but after this, we’ll have 118. 45 The Esplanade throughout P2 and P3 will have 130 spots. Total will be 149.
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
I believe they have every intention of building this currently, for good or bad.
Bibi L
Active Member
This is confusing. After looking at the parking lot’s redevelopments, I noticed that they appear to only show the parking lot that is mostly under 45 The Esplanade, and not 25 The Esplanade. Remember both parking lots are connected and are under both buildings, and stretch all the way to both ends of buildings. I couldn’t find the ramp, and noticed that there are a lot of incoming changes to the lot. Here are their proposals to the garage, compared to the current layout.
Redesign of P1:
Redesign of P2:
Redesign of P3:
And here are my drawings of the current parking lot’s layout by memory.
We see a number of differences. First, we don’t even see any parts of the garage west of the ramp. On the far east, under Novotel, there’s an area “U-Turn”, which has no parking. In the redevelopment, we see towards the wall, bike storage, but also parking. The wall is also more slanted towards the west. Parking spots remain on the southern-most area, as well as the big amounts of parking spaces in the centre, where the lobby for 45 The Esplanade is. Stairwell in the centre area will remain as well, however, I do not see a stairwell in the north-eastern corner. I instead see locker rooms. Parking spots remain on the northern wall. South-western corner appears to have bike storage. In the centre area, there will be bike storage, close to the stairwell, as well as locker rooms. The garage currently does not have locker rooms, only bike rooms, because 25 The Esplanade mostly has storage rooms built into the units instead of somewhere in the parking lot. Which is nicer. Some smaller units have locker rooms in the hallways of the building. With the newer development, they will be adding locker rooms to the garage for residents of 45 The Esplanade.
Parking lot outline.
Redesign of P1:
Redesign of P2:
Redesign of P3:
And here are my drawings of the current parking lot’s layout by memory.
We see a number of differences. First, we don’t even see any parts of the garage west of the ramp. On the far east, under Novotel, there’s an area “U-Turn”, which has no parking. In the redevelopment, we see towards the wall, bike storage, but also parking. The wall is also more slanted towards the west. Parking spots remain on the southern-most area, as well as the big amounts of parking spaces in the centre, where the lobby for 45 The Esplanade is. Stairwell in the centre area will remain as well, however, I do not see a stairwell in the north-eastern corner. I instead see locker rooms. Parking spots remain on the northern wall. South-western corner appears to have bike storage. In the centre area, there will be bike storage, close to the stairwell, as well as locker rooms. The garage currently does not have locker rooms, only bike rooms, because 25 The Esplanade mostly has storage rooms built into the units instead of somewhere in the parking lot. Which is nicer. Some smaller units have locker rooms in the hallways of the building. With the newer development, they will be adding locker rooms to the garage for residents of 45 The Esplanade.
Parking lot outline.
mburrrrr
Senior Member
They will have full separation. Two car entrances. One new for 45. One existing for 25. No walking access. No sharing.
Bibi L
Active Member
Thanks for the response. I’m not sure if 118 spots will be enough for our 571 units. I know our 224 reserved parking spots aren’t fully used, but cutting it in half might not be great. At least our parking will not be shared anymore, and will be fully private. That’s probably gonna add more security, and no more event parking, which opens our contracted private parking to the public. What happens to the ownership though? Currently Silver Hotel Group owns the whole lot, but now that it is being completely separated, it might change? Or maybe not. As Silver Hotel Group also owns the retail and office spaces for 25 The Esplanade. Looking at the parking for 45 The Esplanade, I didn’t notice any ramps. Are the ramps west of Church St and into the lane way? Or closer to our current ramp? Also, the only parking we’ll keep will be the one that’s under our building, which is the triangular part, the part not shown in the proposal for 45. If this proposal does get accepted and construction starts, how are they gonna separate the garage? Will we lose access to it when they demolish half of the garage? You know, it’s connected as one.
Lots of questions. Wonder how they’re gonna demolish half of our garage and separate it. Possibly losing access for a while…
mburrrrr
Senior Member
We should probably discuss this over a beer on the terrace . The lawyers will have to figure this one out. I assume some sort of new contract or settlement or a breach of contract
The 45 ramp is at the back off the laneway. Each floor is “the ramp” slopped down to the next level. This will be a complete teardown to the existing P3 or a new elevation of P3.
I assume the first thing is to separate all the common elements in the parking garage; such as life safety, emergency power, controls, ventilation, water, sewer, drainage, lighting, electrical, communications, buried common main gas line in the laneway entrance. etc. Maybe they will need an additional new egress too.
Then I assume they would install a new concrete or block wall at the property line separating the 3 parking levels. Then we would be self contained and ready for demolition. Access to the 25 garage would be through the common laneway or the back laneway through our normal entrance. They will need to maintain access for cars, garbage, moving truck, contractors, daily Canada Post - post office box and other furniture deliveries.
I assume Silver Group Hotels will still maintain ownership of the existing parking and office. Who knows what their plans are? Sell it back, hand over the retail and office, try to make us happy or just give us the middle finger.
It should be fun one to demo with the 2024 bike lanes adjacent to colonnade and one way access on the Esplanade for staging.
Why bother? Just keep the Novotel.
Bibi L
Active Member
Haha, yeah we should. We’ll probably run into each other someday. You’ve got every LCBO in town favourited on Apple Maps…
I see, the floor with be slightly slanted until it reaches the next floor, instead of it being flat and a ramp somewhere. Definitely a complete tear down and rebuild.
I’m also wondering, the current garage has around 4 stairs. After the garage is separated, we’ll only have one. Would that be up to fire code? We will have 2 air vents.
That will be a lot of work. The current garage is very much connected as one big lot between two buildings. Separating it and having to separate everything into both parking lots independently will be a lot of work.
I don’t understand why Avro Group decided to not give ownership to part of the parking lot to MTCC #850. And also kept the retail and office space to themselves, only to later sell all of it to Silver Hotel Group, instead of some to MTCC 850. Our condo board can’t do anything about the condition of the parking. And residents have complained previously about it. We have to rent the parking instead of own it… parking is not in our hands…
Why don’t we just keep the Novotel. The architecture of it complements 25 The Esplanade very well. Walking under the 180m colonnade stretching both buildings is always great. It will be a loss if they demolish it, cutting the colonnade in half. I love the colonnade. It’s nothing like any other building in the city. It’s iconic. It fits the neighbourhood well. Replacing it with just glass and brick will be so boring. It’ll be like any other part of downtown with new boring developments where architecture is just copied and pasted. It’ll be a forgetful area. Not the case with the current building. Lots of people walk under it and enjoy it. The whole Esplanade will become a long street with very long brick walls on either sides. Novotel and 25 bring vibrancy to the neighbourhood. And it’s a building that people walk by and take pictures of and remember. So many wedding shoots. Even movies filmed under the colonnade.
And someone said “It’s just precast concrete from the 80s”
Yeah, but what about the replacement? That’s nothing special either. Just glass from the 2020s.
The architecture for Novotel and 25 is done different in a way that I enjoy it. Not the case for the new development.
So much work to demolish it too. Why not build somewhere else? Why this one.
Blixtein
Active Member
Those towers look really dumb.
mburrrrr
Senior Member
Avro originally sold the parking spots with the condo units. I don’t have the exact details but there was a dispute about the ground water I believe and the developer bought all the parking spots back from the condo owners after a few years. Then the developer created a new agreement with mttc850 and rented the parking out through Yorke parking, then Impark and now Target.
It looks like the new P3 level will be about 1 m lower than existing based on the site plan application files.
Hopefully they don’t create any ground water issues during construction.
It looks like the new P3 level will be about 1 m lower than existing based on the site plan application files.
Hopefully they don’t create any ground water issues during construction.