11th said:
Yonge has Beecroft and Doris. Maybe Sheppard needs its own service road(s) between Yonge and Leslie.
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Sheppard isn't really the problem here; its Bayview.

There are 2 straight-forward answers here; but they aren't cheap; and even less popular.

Bayview has a relief road already, in theory, Willowdale Avenue.

Its long enough, wide enough, and rarely has heavy traffic.

But the issue is traffic going to/from the 401, particularly from the north.

To divert the some of the cars to Willowdale; you need a 401 interchange w/Willowdale Ave. A full interchange (but going/coming from the north only) would be ideal; but even just an exit-only interchange would be a help.

At the same time, to build transit market-share, you need to build Willowdale Station. That was part of the original design for the Sheppard line; and its absence makes transit less attractive in the area.

But both a new highway interchange and a new subway stop would be opposed by a majority in the immediate vicinity of Willowdale + Sheppard, as well as those living right on Willowdale. It would take a very brave politician to point out the solution and then stick their neck out to get it implemented.
 
I've said this in other area threads, but I will add it here too: you'll never get an interchange at Willowdale Avenue and the 401. The MTO no longer allows interchanges closer than 2 km apart owing to weaving conflicts. Weaving, or traffic coming on and from one interchange and trying to move left, while other traffic is trying to move right to leave at the next interchange, is dangerous, and one kilometre between interchanges does not leave enough space to accomplish it safely. The only way around it is to build basket weaves, bridging the conflicting ramps under and over each other, and those take a lot of land. In this dense area, more land would require expropriation and demolition, both of which the province and city are loathe to do. Besides the disruption caused by that to established neighbourhoods, can you imagine the expense?

You've also got planning policy lined up against you: making it easier to get around by car is not generally favoured these days, as the system in general cannot handle more cars. Beyond incremental improvements to existing transport arteries, new transport capacity spending is being aimed squarely at public transport.

Whatever transport capacity increase we are going to get, it's not going to come fast enough. Barring an apocalypse, if you live in this area of the city, if you drive, you're going to be stuck in traffic during increasingly lengthy peak travel times. The Yonge subway, meanwhile, is getting incremental but not transformational capacity improvements via the new higher capacity trains and in a couple of years through computer control. The only way to add significantly to transport capacity in the area at a reasonable cost is to turn the GO Richmond Hill line into a proper all-day two-way frequent regional rail service (see the CityRail articles on UrbanToronto's front page). That will take years too, so in the meantime you'll either have to get used to the traffic, or move.

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interchange42 said:
I've said this in other area threads, but I will add it here too: you'll never get an interchange at Willowdale Avenue and the 401. The MTO no longer allows interchanges closer than 2 km apart owing to weaving conflicts. Weaving, or traffic coming on and from one interchange and trying to move left, while other traffic is trying to move right to leave at the next interchange, is dangerous, and one kilometre between interchanges does not leave enough space to accomplish it safely. The only way around it is to build basket weaves, bridging the conflicting ramps under and over each other, and those take a lot of land. In this dense area, more land would require expropriation and demolition, both of which the province and city are loathe to do. Besides the disruption caused by that to established neighbourhoods, can you imagine the expense?

You've also got planning policy lined up against you: making it easier to get around by car is not generally favoured these days, as the system in general cannot handle more cars. Beyond incremental improvements to existing transport arteries, new transport capacity spending is being aimed squarely at public transport.

Whatever transport capacity increase we are going to get, it's not going to come fast enough. Barring an apocalypse, if you live in this area of the city, if you drive, you're going to be stuck in traffic during increasingly lengthy peak travel times. The Yonge subway, meanwhile, is getting incremental but not transformational capacity improvements via the new higher capacity trains and in a couple of years through computer control. The only way to add significantly to transport capacity in the area at a reasonable cost is to turn the GO Richmond Hill line into a proper all-day two-way frequent regional rail service (see the CityRail articles on UrbanToronto's front page). That will take years too, so in the meantime you'll either have to get used to the traffic, or move.

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Click to expand...


I don't disagree with what's been said above. I don't live in the area, or drive there very often; and I'm very much a proponent of transit.

However, I would also argue that its irresponsible to permit an excess of new development (and it will certainly meet w/much opposition) in an area where traffic can be so awful, indeed much worse that most of downtown, in rush hour.


The traffic problem here, overwhelmingly is north-south. Its bad on Yonge, bad on Bayview, not quite as bad, but not good on Leslie, particularly south of Sheppard.

There is no ready-made transit alternative.

Even GO Richmond Hill is not a great choice, except for taking a portion of Downtown-bound, York-Region based commuters.

Any local N-S traffic flow, would be poorly served by a GO line w/no stops from Oriole to Downtown. With some shuffling a useable stop at York Mills could be created; south of there any potential station location is problematic at best.

Much of the traffic is also generated by 401-bound traffic that may have an east or westerly trip orientation, presumably well beyond the area of the Sheppard subway.

How does one successfully reduce that? I suppose tolling the 401 might cut use slightly; but after that, you would need to cut flow along Bayview.

I suppose you could just extend Willowdale both north and south and use it to pick off local traffic; but that would probably be more cost-prohibitive and controversial than a new interchange.

(I'm thinking to Clark in the north and to York Mills in the south; getting it over to Mt. Pleasant looks just too complex and costly)
 
Turning the GO line into a proper regional rail line would add more stops between Oriole and Union. Willowdale Avenue will never be extended across the 401 to York Mills; expropriation and disruptions costs would be unacceptable. Besides that no-one down there will accept it.

I am not disputing that the pace of development is outpacing adequate transportation infrastructure improvements. I'm just saying forget about major road works as a component of the solution; they simply won't happen.

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Northern Light said:
Sheppard isn't really the problem here; its Bayview.

There are 2 straight-forward answers here; but they aren't cheap; and even less popular.

Bayview has a relief road already, in theory, Willowdale Avenue.

Its long enough, wide enough, and rarely has heavy traffic.

But the issue is traffic going to/from the 401, particularly from the north.

To divert the some of the cars to Willowdale; you need a 401 interchange w/Willowdale Ave. A full interchange (but going/coming from the north only) would be ideal; but even just an exit-only interchange would be a help.

At the same time, to build transit market-share, you need to build Willowdale Station. That was part of the original design for the Sheppard line; and its absence makes transit less attractive in the area.

But both a new highway interchange and a new subway stop would be opposed by a majority in the immediate vicinity of Willowdale + Sheppard, as well as those living right on Willowdale. It would take a very brave politician to point out the solution and then stick their neck out to get it implemented.
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Or they can do something crazy like this:

byandsh.jpg


(when the YMCA land is finally up for redevelopment AND when they could purchase the houses on the SW corner)
 

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11th said:
Yonge has Beecroft and Doris. Maybe Sheppard needs its own service road(s) between Yonge and Leslie.
Click to expand...

Even though I'm a transit proponent, I fully agree with this. Every area that's dense in the world - no matter how transit-friendly and mixed use - has a fairly dense network of arterial roads. That doesn't mean that the arterial roads have to be designed like they are in the 905, but that there should be multiple through routes that are available for traffic of all kinds, including the far higher density of service vehicles and delivery trucks that arise from mixed use, higher density communities. At least two lane through roads analogous to the Kings, Queens, and Dundases of the world (or what they do in Europe) would suffice.

It's hard, given the fact that there are a lot of NIMBYs in the area, and that it is an upped middle class, suburban neighbourhood. Perhaps, over time, they can ram Esther Shiner Blvd. through to Rean, and in the process blockbust and redevelop that bungalow neighbourhood between Bessarion and NY Towers. In the longer term, they could think about smashing Arrowstook through to Elkhorn/Bayview Mews and connect it to Old Leslie on the east. You'd have to clear hundreds of bungalows, but hasn't stopped them in that area before and we should be thinking about wholesale destruction of our suburban neighbourhoods if they're along subway lines, anyway.
 
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I don't even think a final report came to community council. Does the Planning Act set a deadline for municipalities to respond?
 
datamouse said:
I don't even think a final report came to community council. Does the Planning Act set a deadline for municipalities to respond?
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The applicant has the right to appeal if no decision has been made after 180 days for an Official Plan Amendment, 120 days for rezoning
 
The March 2015 hearing didn't happen. Negotiations continued, and the 29-storey proposal was resubmitted at 25 storeys, and supported by City Council in an in camera vote on June 10, 2015 in advance of a June 15, 2015 OMB hearing, where presumably it was approved, although I cannot dig up an OMB document to confirm that. Here, at least, is the City's confidential attachment which was made public after the OMB hearing:

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2015/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-81685.pdf

Anyone have anything more final, or an update?

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Not one I can find.

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