[Dilla]

Surface routes and subways run much more frequently in Toronto and condition of the vehicles is better.

I once took a commuter train (Montreal's version of GO, I can't recall what it's called) to Trudeau airport, and I honestly that train must have been brought in used from Mexico. It made GO look like it was something from the Jetsons.

 

[Archivist]

I also questioned the transit part of pman's post. One thing I have learned to hate about the Montreal metro is how deep and far off the stations are. It seems to me like you enter a station, and have to travel a huge distance down and often laterally to get to the platform, just to find that you missed the train and have to wait eight minutes or something to catch the next one. In Montreal, I would never consider taking the subway one station, because it's just too much work, but in Toronto, I would and do.

 

[pman]

transit in montreal and toronto

I was surprised so many posters found Toronto's transit better than Montreal's. Maybe I'm spoiled as my flat in Montreal is 3 blocks from the Outremont metro station, and the Van Horne bus to the Rosemont metro station is an 8-minute service. In Toronto, even though I live in the central city my local bus is a 20-minute service, or I can walk about 20 minutes to the closest subway station, which means I invariably drive everywhere.

The deeper stations in Montreal aren't particularly bothersome - the major level changes have escalators, and as a plus the stations are nicely heated in winter. Montreal's stations are nowhere near as deep as London's Central Line or Picadilly Line.

Montreal's metro stations haven't deteriorated as badly as Toronto's with stuff like water ingress and broken tiles and ceiling cladding, but maybe that's just a function of the fact their system is newer.

And changing trains at Lionel Groulx is a treat because two lines share one (generously wide) platform.

 

[carrefour]

I was surprised so many posters found Toronto's transit better than Montreal's. Maybe I'm spoiled as my flat in Montreal is 3 blocks from the Outremont metro station, and the Van Horne bus to the Rosemont metro station is an 8-minute service. In Toronto, even though I live in the central city my local bus is a 20-minute service, or I can walk about 20 minutes to the closest subway station, which means I invariably drive everywhere.

I'm a Torontonian living in Montreal and trust me - with exception of the Outremont and Plateau areas that pman lives in, transit is certainly better in Toronto. It may not be as pretty, but I have never cursed out buses in T.O. as much as I have in MTL.

But speaking of T.O. back in the old day:
my parents, who immigrated to Canada at the beginning of the opening immigration, are surprised at how much the city has grown. They say in the early 70s, it was still pretty much white anglo saxon and protestant - almost to the point of caricature. It's certainly hard for me to believe that sort of toronto life exited; seeing the city now.

The big thing I have noticed is that Toronto did a lot of growing up in the last decade. A city that once had no fun or cultural life whatsoever has become an amazing destination. Whenever I come home and get off the train at Union Station, I am amazed by how big the city feels. And I can definitely say that the nightlife in Toronto has begun to rival that in Montreal.

I think that the citizens and politicians of the 2 cities are still stuck with 1960s impressions of themselves and each other:

Montrealers still think that their city is the great metropolis it once was but is no more. They think Toronto is still the victorian no fun city that pledges allegiance every morning to the Royal Family in England. This is why Montreal civic leaders are always promoting grand visions for their city - they think big.

Torontonians still think that their city is the provincial English backwater it once was but certainly is not any more. They think Montreal will forever be cool even though it is really just a case of the Emperor's New Clothes. This is why Toronto politicians don't really have any grand scheme for the city - they think small.

 

[adma]

I was surprised so many posters found Toronto's transit better than Montreal's. Maybe I'm spoiled as my flat in Montreal is 3 blocks from the Outremont metro station, and the Van Horne bus to the Rosemont metro station is an 8-minute service. In Toronto, even though I live in the central city my local bus is a 20-minute service, or I can walk about 20 minutes to the closest subway station, which means I invariably drive everywhere.

Well, it may depend where you live in Toronto relative to where you lived in Montreal, transitwise, so to judge on such grounds might be unfair. (Though upon reflection, bus service in downtown Toronto really is a heavily tertiary thing--what is there, Bay, Sherbourne, Parliament, the funny little Pape line loop at the bottom and the Dupont terminus up top, and the Yonge rush hour/vomit comet route...)

 

[Jonny5]

Well, it may depend where you live in Toronto relative to where you lived in Montreal, transitwise, so to judge on such grounds might be unfair. (Though upon reflection, bus service in downtown Toronto really is a heavily tertiary thing--what is there, Bay, Sherbourne, Parliament, the funny little Pape line loop at the bottom and the Dupont terminus up top, and the Yonge rush hour/vomit comet route...)

Also Wellesley, which is another odd route like Pape (and Cherry)! Passing through three subway stations and a block from a fourth, it serves so many different markets. It really is a very important link for the many neighbourhoods it passes through. I believe it will be in the 20-minute network whenever that launches.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

Why is Pape an odd route? I get on the subway everyday at Pape and that bus is always packed at rushour. Its also a nice, fast way of getting to the docklands.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Why is Pape an odd route? I get on the subway everyday at Pape and that bus is always packed at rushour. Its also a nice, fast way of getting to the docklands.

I think they're referring to the 72, which serves to connect Pape station to the Queen streetcar at Carlaw. It then takes a left on Queen, right at Pape and circles around on Eastern to head back up to Pape station. For those who feel they need majesty in their bus rides, the 72A will take you on a grand tour south of Lakeshore and finish up at Union station, with views of the Film District, Cherry St. Basin, Distillery District, Canada's first Parliament building, and the Bay Street Financial District. All aboard!

 

[Blues]

Remember, this was a time that Torontonians would travel to Buffalo for a good time.

As a mid-20 year old living in the Buffalo-Niagara region, I find that funny. Now Torontonians/Ontario residents come down to shop.

I been to Toronto three times in my life (the last time in 2006) and I love the city. Looking at all the new developments, the new new excitement, and the growth of the area; Toronto seems to becoming into it's own.

It seems like the mix of immigrants and the growth of Bay Street have really given Toronto it's shine. Looking at the cluster of skyscrapers of the Bay Street banks/financial firms, the salaries they pay and the amount of people; it's certainly given growth to all the great cultural and educational resources of the city, the entrepreneurial spirit, and a bigger profile on the international stage. Throw in the development of world-class companies like the Four Seasons, Sun Life and Manulife Financial, and others, its done a nice job.

Toronto seems to be lost on the international stage, but it is a the 5th-largest metro area North America. It seems like the city blends the demographics and lifestyles very nicely. It just flows from Yorkville to the financial district to the suburbs.

Looking at Toronto now, it seems like it is developing its glamor side. The large developments from the RC, Shangri-La, Trump, and the new FS, along with the designer brands moving in and upscale restaurants opening, it's interesting to see. You see a lot of luxury-to-exotic cars zipping around the GTA. The skyline is changing in a big way, the airport is expanding with a lot of new domestic and international service, and the financial firms/banks based in Toronto are getting aggressive in growth (and if the rest of world becomes more regulated in this area, it will only help Toronto even more). I don't know the numbers, but it seems like Toronto has quite a lot of millionaires and is emerging as entrepreneurial place.


BTW, I know Toronto isn't Montreal in terms of dining, but does Toronto compete very well in this department in regards to the rest of the world?

 

[OttoSchloss]

"BTW, I know Toronto isn't Montreal in terms of dining, but does Toronto compete very well in this department in regards to the rest of the world?"

It really depends. Dining in Montreal as in Toronto isn't uniformly good or bad. I would never go to Montreal for Chinese food (it would be like going to Utica for the same thing). But I would go to Toronto for Chinese food because I know that I'd get something akin to the Chinese food I'd find in Hong Kong (depending on where you go). There are real differences in how the cities and cultures approach food. Differences in sophistication about food -where as Montrealers might be more sophisticated in certain areas of cuisine, Torontonians are more sophisticated in others. But is Toronto a foodie destination? Not yet -not unless variety and openness is your angle.

 

[Blues]

"BTW, I know Toronto isn't Montreal in terms of dining, but does Toronto compete very well in this department in regards to the rest of the world?"

It really depends. Dining in Montreal as in Toronto isn't uniformly good or bad. I would never go to Montreal for Chinese food (it would be like going to Utica for the same thing). But I would go to Toronto for Chinese food because I know that I'd get something akin to the Chinese food I'd find in Hong Kong (depending on where you go). There are real differences in how the cities and cultures approach food. Differences in sophistication about food -where as Montrealers might be more sophisticated in certain areas of cuisine, Torontonians are more sophisticated in others. But is Toronto a foodie destination? Not yet -not unless variety and openness is your angle.

Interesting. What do you feel Toronto is lacking in terms of food? Do you feel it is getting better in the last decade or so with talented chefs like Mark McEwan and Jamie Kennedy leading the charge? With the upcoming restaurants that should debut in the next two or three years in all of these luxury developments around town, it should provide a bit of a boost in the restaurant scence. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like Toronto is starting to become a better restaurant with a cross of a bigger base of great talent in the kitchen, a passion for the produce and products, and a growing palate (and income base) of consumers. Chefs like Claudio Aprile seem to be willing to push the evelope to new levels.

 

[ganjavih]

Both are good food cities, but I prefer Montreal overall. Montreal is better for pastry shops, delis, Middle Eastern, Spanish, Portuguese, French, etc. I've also had better luck randomly going to restaurants in Montreal and getting a good meal, while my experience has been mixed in Toronto.

 

[OttoSchloss]

Interesting. What do you feel Toronto is lacking in terms of food? Do you feel it is getting better in the last decade or so with talented chefs like Mark McEwan and Jamie Kennedy leading the charge? With the upcoming restaurants that should debut in the next two or three years in all of these luxury developments around town, it should provide a bit of a boost in the restaurant scence. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like Toronto is starting to become a better restaurant with a cross of a bigger base of great talent in the kitchen, a passion for the produce and products, and a growing palate (and income base) of consumers. Chefs like Claudio Aprile seem to be willing to push the evelope to new levels.

Oh I'd say it's ten times better than it was here in say the 80s. There's a greater focus on local ingredients and experimentation. And I think Torontonians eat out on average more so than other Canadians but there isn't this great demand for greatness all the time. I think in Toronto a lot of the time people will eat various ethnic food etc. and automatically consider that a "foodie act" versus actually looking for quality in the food they are eating. It's I ate roti or sushi versus I ate roti and sushi and it was the best sushi/roti whatever, ever. If that makes any sense.

 

[Jonny5]

Why is Pape an odd route? I get on the subway everyday at Pape and that bus is always packed at rushour. Its also a nice, fast way of getting to the docklands.

As Riverdale Rink Rat alluded, it's the 72A I find odd. Making the Pape bus routing go so far west that it has a stop on Bay Street must have come from some TTC planners wet dream, or nightmare. It must be the TTC's quirkiest route, aside from the garage routes.

 

[Urban Shocker]

... with some of the quirkiest passengers, too. I used to occasionally get my kicks by taking the Magic Bus ( as a co-worker calls it ... ) to and from the downtown a few years ago. It really is a slice of life - especially in the early evenings when the people who work in mysterious and unknowable factory-type buildings near the lake wend their weary ways homeward after picking mushrooms, or handling nuclear waste, or whatever it is they do all day.