RitsmaCW said:
There's also demand from Hamilton residents moving to Brantford for slightly cheaper housing. It's only about a 25 minute commute to Hamilton. There would surely be more demand if Brantford didn't make every single wrong decision and have a downtown that tries to give Detroit a run for it's money.
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Now now! The downtown is not that bad and is on an upswing. Lol
 
rdaner said:
Now now! The downtown is not that bad and is on an upswing. Lol
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Errrrm...I was there last summer, and the downtown is dilapidated. I was actually shocked by how bad it was. Think of the zombie-esque crackheads ambling about Yonge-Dundas square and pockets of downtown east in Toronto (like Sherbourne and Dundas) except that Brantford's entire downtown is like that. Certainly the worst mid-sized city in Ontario that I've seen.
 
rdaner said:
Now now! The downtown is not that bad and is on an upswing. Lol
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Not quite...........but not for lack of trying on Brantford's part!

Let's review their initiatives through the years:

- Demolish longest intact row of 19thC storefronts in all of Ontario - check
- Closed off a street linking downtown to the River - check
- Turn the two main downtown streets one-way like freeways making getting/living downtown a hassle. - check
- Approve a 1/2 assed ugly casino next to river - check
- Approve big box plaza and fast food next to river (just outside downtown) with lots of surface parking - check
- Run very poor transit service - Check
- Allow a drug problem among youth to fester and get out of control more than a decade before it became a wider issue in Ontario - check
- Do too little to foster positive relations with adjacent First Nations community - check
- Approve lots of sprawl - check

Man, they may not have completely killed the core (though close) but they gave it their best effort.
 
Sorta off-topically...

Northern Light said:
- Allow a drug problem among youth to fester and get out of control more than a decade before it became a wider issue in Ontario - check
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...lack of hope, gratuitous income disparity, market focused "safety" net, clueless/useless governments...say that ain't so! /bleh

More on-topically though: I don't think that problem would be ever solved by making the Brampton core all pretty here, lol.
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
Sorta off-topically...


...lack of hope, gratuitous income disparity, market focused "safety" net, clueless/useless governments...say that ain't so! /bleh

More on-topically though: I don't think that problem would be ever solved by making the Brampton core all pretty here, lol.
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LOL; Brantford, not Brampton.

And the issue isn't 'pretty' per se.

On a non-funny note, an ex-gf lost her sister to an OD.

The problem 'unique' in Brantford, in its intensity, before that was seen elsewhere in towns of size in Ontario (to my knowledge) was a mix of things that affect challenged families everywhere, which you note above; but then exascerbated
by a community that made that life just a bit more difficult (bad transit, lack of constructive things to do as a teen, or an adult (parent); lack of employment in that particular stretch of the community; and a community that honestly gave the impression of not caring); to add to that, those circumstances made the demand for drugs higher; and the state of that area, meant there was easier access than their otherwise might have been.

I wouldn't oversell the link to pretty per se; but there is a link between the appearance of an area and the prosperity of those living/working there.

In fairness to Brantford, it went from a very blue collar community (heavily industrial employment) to substantially de-industrialized in a hurry; and there was insufficient help from senior levels of gov't to mitigate that)
 
Northern Light said:
LOL; Brantford, not Brampton.

And the issue isn't 'pretty' per se.

On a non-funny note, an ex-gf lost her sister to an OD.

The problem 'unique' in Brantford, in its intensity, before that was seen elsewhere in towns of size in Ontario (to my knowledge) was a mix of things that affect challenged families everywhere, which you note above; but then exascerbated
by a community that made that life just a bit more difficult (bad transit, lack of constructive things to do as a teen, or an adult (parent); lack of employment in that particular stretch of the community; and a community that honestly gave the impression of not caring); to add to that, those circumstances made the demand for drugs higher; and the state of that area, meant there was easier access than their otherwise might have been.

I wouldn't oversell the link to pretty per se; but there is a link between the appearance of an area and the prosperity of those living/working there.

In fairness to Brantford, it went from a very blue collar community (heavily industrial employment) to substantially de-industrialized in a hurry; and there was insufficient help from senior levels of gov't to mitigate that)
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I feel like it's only getting worse. I know a couple people including my neighbour and my uncle, and a few others who have moved to Brantford to build or live in their "dream home" which consists of a suburban single detached nowhere near the core.

When I mention Brantford downtown, and how it seems like it was on some kind of upswing before COVID, they have basically told me that they have no intention of ever going to Brantford's core and they could burn it down for all they care. There's nothing of value there for them.
 
Northern Light said:
LOL; Brantford, not Brampton.

And the issue isn't 'pretty' per se.

On a non-funny note, an ex-gf lost her sister to an OD.

The problem 'unique' in Brantford, in its intensity, before that was seen elsewhere in towns of size in Ontario (to my knowledge) was a mix of things that affect challenged families everywhere, which you note above; but then exascerbated
by a community that made that life just a bit more difficult (bad transit, lack of constructive things to do as a teen, or an adult (parent); lack of employment in that particular stretch of the community; and a community that honestly gave the impression of not caring); to add to that, those circumstances made the demand for drugs higher; and the state of that area, meant there was easier access than their otherwise might have been.

I wouldn't oversell the link to pretty per se; but there is a link between the appearance of an area and the prosperity of those living/working there.

In fairness to Brantford, it went from a very blue collar community (heavily industrial employment) to substantially de-industrialized in a hurry; and there was insufficient help from senior levels of gov't to mitigate that)
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Derp! Oh, that Brantford! Glad I stopped myself from calling it Bradford... >.<

...and fair enough! Not the prettiest place to go through traveling by Via to my folks' place, to put it mildly...didn't know the problems there where more deep seated than they looked. Not that I am really that surprised about that either.

My position still remains on this subject...but I can also respect that the uniqueness of the problem can be relative to the areas it's effecting. And for what that's worth here.
 
Northern Light said:
LOL; Brantford, not Brampton.

And the issue isn't 'pretty' per se.

On a non-funny note, an ex-gf lost her sister to an OD.

The problem 'unique' in Brantford, in its intensity, before that was seen elsewhere in towns of size in Ontario (to my knowledge) was a mix of things that affect challenged families everywhere, which you note above; but then exascerbated
by a community that made that life just a bit more difficult (bad transit, lack of constructive things to do as a teen, or an adult (parent); lack of employment in that particular stretch of the community; and a community that honestly gave the impression of not caring); to add to that, those circumstances made the demand for drugs higher; and the state of that area, meant there was easier access than their otherwise might have been.

I wouldn't oversell the link to pretty per se; but there is a link between the appearance of an area and the prosperity of those living/working there.

In fairness to Brantford, it went from a very blue collar community (heavily industrial employment) to substantially de-industrialized in a hurry; and there was insufficient help from senior levels of gov't to mitigate that)
Click to expand...
I liken what’s happened to Brantford to what’s taken place in many mid sized cities in Ontario- when decline or stagnation looms; they gravitate to “big” but uninformed ideas of how to “fix” the city. Often as a result they neglect the real issues festering and only ruin whatever they touch. Making downtown Brantford Cartopia strikes me as a very misguided attempt at making it desirable (to drivers Ofc). While not exclusive to cities facing hardship, these decisions are compounded because there is no growth to buoy the less-than-stellar built form, and then it reaches its ultimate conclusion- it becomes a “dump”.

I liken it to the urban malls that are slowly disappearing. The Eaton Centre and surrounding area in Toronto does fine, if not flourishes despite being a bad piece of planning in a conventional sense. But the same was not true for Hamilton’s Eaton Centre, and so the shortcomings manifested rapidly. There are too many other examples.

In essence, these cities are forced into doing something radical, but can’t ensure success. So you get horribly marred cores that couldn’t bear it without growth to fit that new (inferior) niche they created. And in the process you pushed out the ‘old’ for a ‘new’ that never arrived. All the while that same decline is devastating the populace, but attention has been on the failing improvement schemes…. Etc etc.

This is all made worse the smaller your city is. Less people that can even imagine a better future. As a nation and province we are doing a disservice to these cities by limiting their ability to help themselves, yet simultaneously not taking initiative to help them. For many, many communities, growth figures obscure the lived reality that comes from the unjust, imposed austerity at that juncture…
 
Sunnyside said:
I liken what’s happened to Brantford to what’s taken place in many mid sized cities in Ontario- when decline or stagnation looms; they gravitate to “big” but uninformed ideas of how to “fix” the city. Often as a result they neglect the real issues festering and only ruin whatever they touch. Making downtown Brantford Cartopia strikes me as a very misguided attempt at making it desirable (to drivers Ofc). While not exclusive to cities facing hardship, these decisions are compounded because there is no growth to buoy the less-than-stellar built form, and then it reaches its ultimate conclusion- it becomes a “dump”.

I liken it to the urban malls that are slowly disappearing. The Eaton Centre and surrounding area in Toronto does fine, if not flourishes despite being a bad piece of planning in a conventional sense. But the same was not true for Hamilton’s Eaton Centre, and so the shortcomings manifested rapidly. There are too many other examples.

In essence, these cities are forced into doing something radical, but can’t ensure success. So you get horribly marred cores that couldn’t bear it without growth to fit that new (inferior) niche they created. And in the process you pushed out the ‘old’ for a ‘new’ that never arrived. All the while that same decline is devastating the populace, but attention has been on the failing improvement schemes…. Etc etc.

This is all made worse the smaller your city is. Less people that can even imagine a better future. As a nation and province we are doing a disservice to these cities by limiting their ability to help themselves, yet simultaneously not taking initiative to help them. For many, many communities, growth figures obscure the lived reality that comes from the unjust, imposed austerity at that juncture…
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I broadly agree; but would add, many mid-sized and some smaller Ontario centres recovered nicely from these poor choices. Hamilton, as example has been on the right track for a bit now, slowly dismantling its one-way street network, and intensifying its core, something that quickened in pace significantly in just the last couple of years. They're behind on good transit, but starting to track positively again.

K-W is a posterchild of downtown rebirth, and Oshawa is beginning to track favourably as well.

Windsor and London both need more of a boost, but both are growing and with a bit of a push should do fine.

I think if you single out the real trouble spots, Brantford is perhaps king, but T-Bay and Sudbury have both had some real issues. Belleville was another bad one for a while, but its showing some positive signs as of late.

I think its within Brantford's capability to do better, even if some additional resources would help.
 
Northern Light said:
I broadly agree; but would add, many mid-sized and some smaller Ontario centres recovered nicely from these poor choices. Hamilton, as example has been on the right track for a bit now, slowly dismantling its one-way street network, and intensifying its core, something that quickened in pace significantly in just the last couple of years. They're behind on good transit, but starting to track positively again.

K-W is a posterchild of downtown rebirth, and Oshawa is beginning to track favourably as well.

Windsor and London both need more of a boost, but both are growing and with a bit of a push should do fine.

I think if you single out the real trouble spots, Brantford is perhaps king, but T-Bay and Sudbury have both had some real issues. Belleville was another bad one for a while, but its showing some positive signs as of late.

I think its within Brantford's capability to do better, even if some additional resources would help.
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Great points. I would characterize the cities that have been recovering as finding a means to do so. KW has tech, Hamilton it’s GTA proximity (and soon industrial rebirth), etc. They have been given an economic impetus to do things right this time, which is the missing component sadly for some of these places- there’s no similar driver that can lift Brantford or what have you today into something better quickly. Not yet at least.

Something I didn’t really get to highlight, but I think is conveyed through your message, is that these places often struggle to get on their feet because of how they’ve just “held on” for so long at an institutional level. They are sluggish, slow to make urban realm changes. For instance, intuitively (to a non-planner) traffic calming a downtown would not increase economic productivity- efficient movement would. Especially in smaller cities, sometimes the capacity to do things the best way literally does not exist at the municipal level. Their frame of reference is just prohibitively small.

Because this seems sociological, I’d say that’s why Government ought to intervene with money and direction: give them the tools, but also give them the how and why. I imagine something to the effect of the Province requiring King/main become two ways as part of the LRT agreement... It’s happening anyway in that case, but I think you get my idea. Get the cities out of their own way by effectively ensuring everything will work out great.
 
Moving along.

www.brantfordexpositor.ca

Redevelopment plans for Freshco site draws mixed reviews

Redevelopment project draws mixed reaction
www.brantfordexpositor.ca www.brantfordexpositor.ca

IMG_7262.png
 
Just want to add this wonderful development has been approved by Brantford councilors and will start construction sometime in 2025.
as someone who lives in Brantford myself I think this is a great development for the downtown - a lot of suburbanites dislike the project both citing concerns of too much traffic and not enough parking at the very same time.

I feel like this forum is hard on Brantford's downtown and while its bad, it has improved over the years and there are plans to bring in the go train to Brantford + they have increased bus intervals to every 15-20min on 2 routes. (still bad, but less!)

link to article
 
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