• Thread starter Suicidal Gingerbread Man
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These buildings looks very nice, however, I'm not a fan of the siamese twin concept (it looks a bit cumbersome). Southcore is already almost entirely made up of twins/triplets. I think these towers would look better as singular masts. It would also be nice if each tower had a unique design. Too much repetition in this part of the city.
 
Hey I'm the first person who's love to be wrong about the timeframe and the on spec rumor / speculation ; - ) ... I say that because even if the office tower sits empty it'll add to the public realm.

Also, the Menkes site office tower, essentially went up on spec too ... with over 85% or so available ... (with only HOOP as a tenant) ... of course that worked out well for them given sun life signed on ... so it can work ! : - )
 
TheTigerMaster said:
What are the chances of all three of these towers getting built? I doubt that the market can support 45 Bay, Union Centre, 156 Front, Oxford Place and the various other office developments. Something has to give.
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I think you're reasonably skeptical. I am inclined to share in your train of thought, based on previous market cycles.

We may need to remind ourselves, though, that previous market cycles haven't experienced certain economic factors that we are paying for today, certainly in terms of risk of investment and debt.
The destructive effects of rapid climate change, for instance, are convincing individual consumers and private developers to invest in regions of higher density because this means guaranteed access to government services in the event of emergencies due to extreme weather. The insurance industry has already been making changes in response to the subsequent impacts of repair costs.
("Something has to give," indeed.)

There is possibly an unfortunate socio-economic factor driving the longevity of Toronto's real estate market, in that the decades-old middle-class problem of growing income inequality has caused Canadians to pre-prioritise their purchases by saying "no" to living car-oriented in the suburbs.
Culturally, the suburbs are now somewhat unfashionable, certainly with the public's environmental awareness, with the public's motivation to experience a variety of world cultures that only exist in the downtown, and even with the public's aspirations to live a celebrity lifestyle in the glamorous downtown core.

As well, previous real estate markets did not have today's provincial and federal policies for foreign investments.
In Toronto, the Greenbelt is something else to consider, too.

So really, we're sort of in uncharted waters here. We have tidal waves of foreign investments in real estate, apparently, and the presumed demand for central living and working, within a limited frame of land on which to develop.... all with a pending real estate crash in the condo industry that has been reported in the media for years now.... and yet, Toronto's market keeps rollin'....seemingly, with its condo tower boom leading the way into an office tower boom, with 45 Bay Street being one of the latest examples.

Something has to give; we just don't know when. We really don't know what's happening. It's thrilling, though, to watch Toronto rise. These projects will contribute to the relief of Toronto's city budget and the budget of the Province of Ontario in terms of infrastructure costs in the long term -- compared to the burden of debt that would be created if the markets were, instead, exclusively experiencing suburban construction cycles and endless outward "growth."

I like the 45 Bay Street proposal. I'm hoping that construction can be complete by the end of the next decade.
 
Lost In The Wilds said:
These buildings looks very nice, however, I'm not a fan of the siamese twin concept (it looks a bit cumbersome). Southcore is already almost entirely made up of twins/triplets. I think these towers would look better as singular masts. It would also be nice if each tower had a unique design. Too much repetition in this part of the city.
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Agreed. Although we have yet to see the final product, i see where this is coming from. There are too many build, proposed, and under construction types of condos and office towers that are essentially copy pastes of each other ( sometimes x 3). But on this particular site , I see an exception considering there is an actual geographical barrier between the 2 main towers. The way it stretches over the railway tracks with towers (of different heights) on either side will look extremely impressive!

As a whole, I'm liking what I'm seeing. I'm a bit surprised by how many towers they're fitting on the site and also how potentially bulky some of these towers look from certain angles. Looks like 2 slender towers joined together. But I'm completely sold on the exterior bracing pattern! Oxford place will have some competition.
Building over the tracks is genius and I'm thrilled they're bringing a shopping centre here. This will be a crucial mixed use terminal for the city.
I kinda wish that 3rd tower (the one beside l tower) wasn't there. I also wish they managed to sneak a hotel in one of the towers upper floors but that's just fantasy.
My god is the Bay Street canyon gonna be impressive and extended so far south thanks to these bad boys. This looks to be the most ambisous project we've seen yet. I'd definitely equivocate this to the Hudson Yards project in manhattan.
 
steveve said:
My god is the Bay Street canyon gonna be impressive and extended so far south thanks to these bad boys. This looks to be the most ambisous project we've seen yet. I'd definitely equivocate this to the Hudson Yards project in manhattan.
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Because of these bad boys, the downtown's skyline will stream uninterrupted to the waterfront. This project really connects the dots.
Being mixed-use, it's also creating community -- not just mere office space that will leave the streets vacant after hours.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
What are the chances of all three of these towers getting built? I doubt that the market can support 45 Bay, Union Centre, 156 Front, Oxford Place and the various other office developments. Something has to give.
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Jobs go where the people are, and the people are more and more moving downtown.
Nothing has to give. This is the new normal. There is no cycle or boom in my opinion. And not all of these projects are happening at the same time.
 
steveve said:
As a whole, I'm liking what I'm seeing. I'm a bit surprised by how many towers they're fitting on the site and also how potentially bulky some of these towers look from certain angles. Looks like 2 slender towers joined together.
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That's because they are joined together! :p
I know it looks like two separate buildings, especially with the roof level's off-set like that, but there is only one south building.
 
Quite impressive! I love the faceted skin.

Quite surprised that the tallest tower will be floated over the rail yards rather than on the 45 Bay site.
Will any of these buildings be supertalls? (300m+)
 
verticalvillage said:
Quite surprised that the tallest tower will be floated over the rail yards rather than on the 45 Bay site.
Will any of these buildings be supertalls? (300m+)
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The tallest tower will be over the existing GO bus terminal actually; it will fit between the Dominion Public Building and the tracks. It's the retail podium which will bridge the tracks (sharing space with a park on the east side of it?).

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