• Thread starter Suicidal Gingerbread Man
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Wonder if there are any opportunities with the bus station moving to the south (I'm guessing essentially it would have an entrance/exit to lakeshore directly) to include a streetcar loop for the East Bayfront as well...just wondering if that would save having to tunnel and expand the loop exists at union already...or even if you still have to tunnel it might be easier to build a new loop while you are building the foundation for this.
 
This (first phase) is an office building, downtown, where city council would dearly love to see more office towers, I think it is likely to get swift approval - just like 156 Front and Union Centre.
 
So really, we're sort of in uncharted waters here. We have tidal waves of foreign investments in real estate, apparently, and the presumed demand for central living and working, within a limited frame of land on which to develop.... all with a pending real estate crash in the condo industry that has been reported in the media for years now.... and yet, Toronto's market keeps rollin'....seemingly, with its condo tower boom leading the way into an office .

Question: At what point does this alleged development boom stop being a boom? The word implies something temporary and short lived, but this "boom" is nearly two decades old and it doesn't show any signs of stopping. It's about time the media came up with a new sensationalized adjective to describe whatever this city is experiencing.
 
we can say that Toronto is in a phase of development. different cities have different speeds of development whereas the development speed in Toronto is on steroids.
BUT STILL WE CANT HAVE A "SUPERTALL".
 
^ Mirvish+Gehry?

we are not sure it might not sell well, so it might get chopped off or Mr.Mirvish might not have enough financing for the building a supertall so he might chop some floors.
 
Question: At what point does this alleged development boom stop being a boom? The word implies something temporary and short lived, but this "boom" is nearly two decades old and it doesn't show any signs of stopping. It's about time the media came up with a new sensationalized adjective to describe whatever this city is experiencing.


I can be sensational too! How about we term this current construction phase as the Toronto Tsunami. ;)

Although a number of media outlets sensationalise the use of as many words as possible: the word "boom" isn't something I consider overly dramatic, nor necessarily short-lived. Can a construction boom last for two or three decades? Sure it can. Whatever isn't infinite is temporary.
But we don't have to wait for the media. How would you describe this?

I would like to describe this as "sustainable urban growth," but time will tell if it actually is.
I'm trying to be patient in understanding the finances of this construction phase: but I warn you, if this boom reaches a third decade, I might insist we start using sensational terms.
 
Question: At what point does this alleged development boom stop being a boom? The word implies something temporary and short lived, but this "boom" is nearly two decades old and it doesn't show any signs of stopping. It's about time the media came up with a new sensationalized adjective to describe whatever this city is experiencing.

This whole discussion is mainly off-topic in a thread about 45 Bay. But not entirely, since the mere existence of a large project like the one that includes 45 Bay indicates that this "boom" is still going strong.

I don't think it's a boom, myself. I think that there has been a fundamental change in the urban development pattern of Toronto, which has been done twice before by other North American cities. New York entered this phase over a century ago, and only the Great Depression and WWII temporarily pulled it into a lower level. Chicago also entered this phase in the mid-twentieth century. Toronto entered it about the turn of the century. The obvious common factor would be their sizes. Once the three cities had reached a certain critical level of population and economic activity, a self-reinforcing cycle of development was established. Other factors that determine whether a city enters this higher level of growth would include whether it's the national economic center, and whether their is limited room for outward expansion. I suspect that Toronto was on the edge of entering this phase for a while, but the establishment of the Greenbelt basically made this type of upward expansion in Toronto a permanent condition.
 
The boom is being fueled by investor driven to take on huge amounts of debt through low interest rates. Ask anyone reaching retirement age that hasn't paid off their mortgages what their plans are.

The trend towards urban living is less predictable as it's not cyclical in nature. The volatility in condo prices could push people back to the stability of freehold should a major downturn unfold. Of course, freehold doesn't mean a garage with a house attached to it. Could mean less apartments, more townhouses.

I've met my share of suburbanites that for years avoided downtown jobs like the plague only to eventually succumbing to major salary increases. Very few would go back to an office park. GO system improvements will only make downtown a stronger market.
 
This whole discussion is mainly off-topic in a thread about 45 Bay. But not entirely, since the mere existence of a large project like the one that includes 45 Bay indicates that this "boom" is still going strong.

I don't think it's a boom, myself. I think that there has been a fundamental change in the urban development pattern of Toronto, which has been done twice before by other North American cities. New York entered this phase over a century ago, and only the Great Depression and WWII temporarily pulled it into a lower level. Chicago also entered this phase in the mid-twentieth century. Toronto entered it about the turn of the century. The obvious common factor would be their sizes. Once the three cities had reached a certain critical level of population and economic activity, a self-reinforcing cycle of development was established. Other factors that determine whether a city enters this higher level of growth would include whether it's the national economic center, and whether their is limited room for outward expansion. I suspect that Toronto was on the edge of entering this phase for a while, but the establishment of the Greenbelt basically made this type of upward expansion in Toronto a permanent condition.

Not sure if we are in a fundamental change or whether the boom will continue, but I am grateful for each tower we see planned, under construction, or completed...we are so lucky to be here in Toronto right now...

Incidentally,there is another tantalizing post at SSP today....by Frankie Flowerpot aka Chester Copperpot....quote:

Saw another proposal this week that will be a new entry in the top 3. It will take the #2 spot in fact.

I don't think he is talking about 45 Bay or Mirvish...

/sorry for OT....
 
Incidentally,there is another tantalizing post at SSP today....by Frankie Flowerpot aka Chester Copperpot....quote:
I don't think he is talking about 45 Bay or Mirvish...

I have also posted that teaser on the thread about supertall and near-supertall rumors and speculation. I also believe that he is talking about something other than 45 Bay, since there was already a lot of talk about 45 Bay before he posted that.
 
Thanks Mongo, just saw your post....interesting times in T.O.......:)
 
Does anyone know what would happen to the land where the bus terminal currently sits at Bay and Dundas?

It will probably be sold to a developer, who will probably develop it and call it "Coach Terminal Condos" or "Coach Condos", and incorporate the facade of the current terminal into the podium...again. (the current terminal is already a product of facadism)
 
You kidding? This is Toronto we are talking about. That Bus Terminal will be given heritage status by years end!

When the OMB finally gets around to approving a condo for that spot, we will pass a bill to hang the iconic "Toronto Coach Terminal" sign at Yonge-Dundas Square. :D
 

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