The TD Centre/PoMo analogy is clever on the surface and I understand where it's coming from, but this isn't about taking any two wildly clashing architectural styles and mashing them together. I think modernist and authentic Victorian specifically work well together (Telus-Royal Conservatory building, National Ballet School, James Cooper Mansion Condos, Pure Spirit/Distillery).
 
Urban Shocker said:
It doesn't demonstrate tower/podium/heritage building scale in the complex as a whole since it focuses on only one corner of the Distillery. And the scale of a tower changes in proportion to a podium beneath it, and to adjacent historical buildings, depending on how near or far you are from it. The scale of the CN Tower on our skyline in relation to the CBC headquarters on our skyline is quite different at Yonge and Sheppard than it is when you're at Front and John, for instance.
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If I put a picture of the complex as a whole you'd comment on the fact that we won't be viewing them from that angle. I think that picture gives a pretty clear indiciation of it's scale to the surrounding buildings. It obviously doesn't include the entire complex, but one can extrapolate from there.

Arguing about scale and positioning is pretty pointless as one could make the same argument about virtually any building. When I'm standing at the base of First Canadian Place I can't really see the tower therefore it doesn't really impact the Financial District...right?
 
syn said:
Yes, and their impact obviously changes depending on where you`re standing. Unfortunately people won`t be standing right beside these towers or all bases all the time. He`d have us believe they won`t have that much of a visual impact from ground level when in the Distillery, but the fact is they will.
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There's a constant shift in the visual weight of buildings in relation to one another as you move through any streetscape. Stand in Trinity Street near Balzac's, for instance, and walk north west: from that perspective the 1859 Stone Distillery building and the Cooperage are considerably larger masses than the Pure Spirit tower. And as you move closer to them across Trinity they actually increase in proportion to the condo tower as the foreshortening effect reduces its comparative size and they mask it because they're closer. Continue west and stand in Distillery Lane, and the Pure Spirit podium building stretching to east and to west more than equals the mass of the foreshortened condo building. Stand in Tank House Lane where it meets Brewery Lane and the Pure Spirit tower is in the distance, framed by much lower historic buildings that are closer to you and form a collective heft that far outweighs the visual heft of the tower. Etc.
 
syn said:
Arguing about scale and positioning is pretty pointless as one could make the same argument about virtually any building. When I'm standing at the base of First Canadian Place I can't really see the tower therefore it doesn't really impact the Financial District...right?
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Finally, you're catching on. And that's important because all your claims about the supposedly negative impact of the towers deal with their visual impact from within the Distillery complex.

Your FCP example is as good as any of those that I've given: from a distance it signposts the financial district - as do the Distillery condos to their site - while to a pedestrian standing at King and Bay the podium of FCP is at least as dominant as the tower. Yet the FCP podium isn't even visible a few blocks away.

Most of your exaggerated claims in this thread appear to have been made out of theoretical assumptions concerning how things will appear rather than practical experience of how they actually look.
 
Most of your exaggerated claims in this thread appear to have been made out of theoretical assumptions concerning how things will appear rather than practical experience of how they actually look.
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Well, of course it's all personal preference, but I think it looks like utter crap.

distillery_pure-spirit_condo_bird_tall_01.jpg
 
And the farther away it is, the smaller it looks. So it should be as far away as possible (and the above picture demonstrates that these towers are just too damn close). ;)
 
That's an excellent image to sum up what we've been discussing, ganja - the vast majority of the built environment in that photo consists of historical buildings with a collective visual weight that more than matches that of the new tower. And as you move further across Trinity Street they will become more dominant and the tower more foreshortened.
 
Urban Shocker said:
Finally, you're catching on. And that's important because all your claims about the supposedly negative impact of the towers deal with their visual impact from within the Distillery complex.

Your FCP example is as good as any of those that I've given: from a distance it signposts the financial district - as do the Distillery condos to their site - while to a pedestrian standing at King and Bay the podium of FCP is at least as dominant as the tower. Yet the FCP podium isn't even visible a few blocks away.

Most of your exaggerated claims in this thread appear to have been made out of theoretical assumptions concerning how things will appear rather than practical experience of how they actually look.
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But the tower is. Unless you're standing right beside the podium the tower has a massive presence.

It's the same for these towers - you're not always going to be standing right beside them.
 
Urban Shocker said:
Most of your exaggerated claims in this thread appear to have been made out of theoretical assumptions concerning how things will appear rather than practical experience of how they actually look.
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While I have very mixed feelings about these towers, I have to call your statement into question. Regarding the new towers, they have not been built, so there is no way to know how all three buildings will look in context to the rest of the Distillery.

My hope is that they look good. We're going to be stuck with them.
 
Yes, syn, towers signpost districts such as the Distilery and the Financial District ... from a distance. And the old Distillery buildings and new podiums, because they're lower, aren't visible from much of a distance either. The picture ganja recently posted shows how it works - imagine you're crossing Trinity Street towards Pure Spirit: as you get closer, the chimney on the left becomes more dominant ( higher in your field of vision than the condo tower, in fact ... ), and the low building on the right and the Cooperage and cupola beyond it become more dominant. Then, when you walk on into Distillery Lane, the foreshortening of the tower becomes more pronounced and the visual weight of the long Pure Spirit podium building stretching all the way to Parliament Street matches the heft of the condo tower. It is called perspective - something you apparently lack.
 
Urban Shocker said:
Yes, syn, towers signpost districts such as the Distilery and the Financial District ... from a distance. And the old Distillery buildings and new podiums, because they're lower, aren't visible from much of a distance either.
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FCP isn't just a signpost for the district - it fits in contextually as well. Does the Distillery need a signpost? Assuming it does, I'd argue this collection of 30-40 storey towers doesn't fit the bill.

The picture ganja recently posted shows how it works - imagine you're crossing Trinity Street towards Pure Spirit: as you get closer, the chimney on the left becomes more dominant ( higher in your field of vision than the condo tower, in fact ... ), and the low building on the right and the Cooperage and cupola beyond it become more dominant. Then, when you walk on into Distillery Lane, the foreshortening of the tower becomes more pronounced and the visual weight of the long Pure Spirit podium building stretching all the way to Parliament Street matches the heft of the condo tower.
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You mention practicallity but offer a very theoritical overview. That may be the effect in your head, but in reality the tower (soon towers) has a much more significant effect.

Urban Shocker said:
It is called perspective - something you apparently lack.
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Getting a little touchy, aren't we?
 
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syn said:
You mention practicallity but offer a very theoritical overview. That may be the effect in your head, but in reality the tower (soon towers) has a much more significant effect.
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It is a practical observation based on my last visit there a few days ago, and is little different from the practical observations posted on this thread by others who are familiar with the Dstillery. You really should open your eyes and deal with what's in the real world rather than the theoretical world that exists only in your head. Why not visit the Distillery and see for yourself what the rest see?
 
For the life of me, I can't think of a reason why the district needs a tall condo for a "signpost"? What does it matter if someone cannot see where the district is, from a distance?

The above photo only highlights my wish that the tallest things at the historic district were the historic tall features like the smokestacks and roof elements.
 
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