jaborandi
Active Member
Maybe Jason Kenney can assist in some way.
- Thread starter greenleaf
- Start date
Res Ipsa Loquitor
New Member
Perhaps. The greater fool theory is sometimes irresistible.
UrbanAffair
Senior Member
The sale price for the land will be much less than a billion - I would est around 400-500 mill. There could be a JV between two or more developers. So many possibilities here, this won't sit for long when the post-covid boom happens, and it will happen.
Any guesses as to whom the developer might be? I thought I saw a nearby Concord sale recently on Yonge, not sure if related, if so it would be unfortunate.
Any guesses as to whom the developer might be? I thought I saw a nearby Concord sale recently on Yonge, not sure if related, if so it would be unfortunate.
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rbt
Senior Member
Tridel, Concord Pacific, Menkes, and Pinnacle are generally wealthy. Great Gulf still has access to East Harbour capital. Timing conflicts with other projects currently underway would be their largest concern.
Diamonte and Alterra could make a go of it but it's a big step up in size; not unlike when Great Gulf took on 1 Bloor and X2 at the same time.
That said, if you asked me for a list in 2018 Cresford would have been on it.
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AlbertC
Superstar
ptbotrmpfn
Senior Member
Priorities right!
.dwg
Active Member
The development industry in Toronto is still strong and they're filthy rich people. But with regards to making this very expensive piece of property work, you greatly underestimate:
1) how over-leveraged Toronto developers are; Cresford was not atypical in that industry, they just happened to be the ones to get burned;
2) how hard it is to financially make a property like this work, even for big Toronto developers. Did you see the units in this thing? They were crammed in to make the formula work; how would a developer make the project profitable when construction costs have gone so much higher in the years since the project started? Somehow the numbers have to work, and for a site this expensive, selling units to cover the cost of the whole thing seems almost impossible.
So no, it won't necessarily get bought up and developed anytime soon. In fact I think this property and 33 Yorkville are probably both pretty hopeless at this point. Huge pieces of property, very high land value / high cost, and difficult to justify taking the risk on if it's not looking profitable enough at the outset.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not crying any tears for the Cresfords of the world. Our over-leveraged developers are doing very very well for themselves. But I think the notion that these projects are too big to fail or that somehow they are just as attractive to developers as they were a few years ago is not necessarily true.
UrbanAffair
Senior Member
Other possible developers, although my money is still on Concord since they bought 357 Yonge...
Lanterra?
Daniels?
Mattamy? (long shot but has the money)
Lanterra?
Daniels?
Mattamy? (long shot but has the money)
Big Daddy
Senior Member
Yes, agreed - It will takes several years to build out this project and by then, Covid will be just a memory and the world will be excited to get back to whatever "normal" is.
Bulloch
New Member
It's already almost a year since construction stopped I wonder how long the city politicians and local businesses let this heart of Toronto Strip stay rotten like this. City gave them permission to build long tunnels right on pedestrian side walk where there is no lights at nights and fences are all loose. I am worried one day some homeless will fell into that deep lake Cresford from yonge or back lane Okeefe lane
Attachments
Northern Light
Superstar
If you have a concern that the fencing or hoarding is unsafe, you should absolutely call the City, they will send out an inspector.
Ideally, you would have photos; but as long as you can clearly articulate your concern, and it's a matter within City jurisdiction (safety/secureness of perimeter and hoarding would be) you can ask them to inspect.
If they deem the site a problem, they can issue an order.
From the City's website:
Who to Call
Contact one of the Toronto Building District Inspection Offices. The inspector will need the address of the property and details of your concern.
Toronto and East York District:
416-338-0700
Bulloch
New Member
How a city inspector’s order will make developer to fix something like that when developer abandoned the billion dollars project because of financial problems
rbt
Senior Member
The site is still insured; they (or the mortgage lender) will get involved if there is a safety issue they are liable for.
thaivic
Active Member
This project is very feasible to build, the cost of construction would be less then 400,000,000 the commercial, retail,office and institutional, could be sold between 150-200,000,000 or more, the condo units at an average of $1300 on the low side would generate 1,061,668,400 , total would be 1,211,668,400 on the low side, the only question is how much the land is worth, and what the carrying cost would be over a 4 year building period.
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
Either way, it is my hope they (whoever they are) move on this soon. That huge pit left there is an eyesore, the heritage structures remaining are left to the elements, the hording is cramping everyone's style, I could go on...
...either build on it as originally planned, or turn it into a public Soviet swimming pool as mentioned a couple pages back or something. Just please don't let it sit there like that for the ages. Thnkx!
...either build on it as originally planned, or turn it into a public Soviet swimming pool as mentioned a couple pages back or something. Just please don't let it sit there like that for the ages. Thnkx!
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