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JSF-1 said:
You can't honeslty believe the reason transit ridership falls off a cliff outside of Toronto is because of wayfinding? You know why transit ridership falls off a cliff outside of Toronto? BECAUSE THERE IS NO TRANSIT OUT THERE and its all subruban wasteland where your forced to drive. Fancy signage and way-finding isn't going to put butts in the seats. The low ridership outside of Toronto is not a way-finding problem, its an urban planning problem so I don't understand the point you are trying to make here.
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"To be clear wayfinding integration is not the biggest problem, and it's not the only problem - but it is a real one." This was in the post so . . . . also there's no transit? What? Some of it isn't great but Brampton and Miss do put a LOT of service out.

Steve X said:
sit to cross borders nor to downtown. That also means many 905 areas won't need to cross borders or head downtown. The equivalent would be hoping on the bus and riding it for 15-30 min to get to where they want to go. The problem? That get's them nowhere if they even get on
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See this is the classic, "people don't do a so we shouldn't do b (when b causes a)" the issue is that of course not many people ride across the border - the numbers are highly suppressed by the lack of integration. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Transportfan said:
Back before the 905 suburbs expanded, the TTC was equivalent to Translink. Vancouver has no suburbs outside the GVRD.
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Yeah that's not true, Abbotsford and out are suburbs without Translink service, people actually commute in from Squamish as well which also does not have Translink sservice.
 
Colour us impressed! At Science Centre Station, the artwork ‘Total Lunar Eclipse’ by Sarah Morris has now been completely installed!
Eglinton Crosstown on Instagram
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Screenshot 2021-02-13 at 13.58.15.png

This is really pretty, imo - it's a shame that Metrolinx has got rid of their art program for future projects..
 
superelevation said:
"
See this is the classic, "people don't do a so we shouldn't do b (when b causes a)" the issue is that of course not many people ride across the border - the numbers are highly suppressed by the lack of integration. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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There is a difference between city X and Y. If city X and Y were designed and built in the same way, people in X can stay in X and vice versa. The dependency would reduce hence lower congestion and lower chance of spreading COVID-19 these days too. Integrating both city won't solve the problem as X would stay in X while Y might want to go to X but X would never want to go to Y.

This kind of boarder is visible in Toronto itself. Look at Dundas and Runnymede, the boarder between Old Toronto and York. Immediately east, everything is well developed with an urban feel in The Junctions. West of it, you'll immediately feel different. Transit usage totally drops off with the 40B bus short turning leaving half as much service on the 40A. You'll see most of the bus would empty off passed this invisible boundary at Runnymede. Route 40 is now fully integrated but the integration itself didn't trigger the change.

The point is people don't do A, so doing B won't make people do A. Fully integrating the GTA won't bring a boom to 905 transit itself. The 905 needs to do more to attract people to transit than simple integration. Fare subsidy is another question. The TTC got rid of fare zones between the Old city and the rest of Metro Toronto. The result was downhill from running a profit to more and more subsidies every since 1973. It ain't going away.
 
turini2 said:
View attachment 299828
This is really pretty, imo - it's a shame that Metrolinx has got rid of their art program for future projects..
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I'm kinda fine with the removed art program if they put more emphasis on architecture. A lot of public art feels tacked on, like an attempt to make boring box concourses look more interesting. If the Ontario Line renders are accurate and Metrolinx will start focusing on making the stations more architecturally interesting, I think that's a good trade of. This is a massive if though unfortunately.
 
ARG1 said:
I'm kinda fine with the removed art program if they put more emphasis on architecture. A lot of public art feels tacked on, like an attempt to make boring box concourses look more interesting. If the Ontario Line renders are accurate and Metrolinx will start focusing on making the stations more architecturally interesting, I think that's a good trade of. This is a massive if though unfortunately.
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as long as they treat the architecture as the art it could honestly work out better than before
 
Steve X said:
There is a difference between city X and Y. If city X and Y were designed and built in the same way, people in X can stay in X and vice versa. The dependency would reduce hence lower congestion and lower chance of spreading COVID-19 these days too. Integrating both city won't solve the problem as X would stay in X while Y might want to go to X but X would never want to go to Y.

This kind of boarder is visible in Toronto itself. Look at Dundas and Runnymede, the boarder between Old Toronto and York. Immediately east, everything is well developed with an urban feel in The Junctions. West of it, you'll immediately feel different. Transit usage totally drops off with the 40B bus short turning leaving half as much service on the 40A. You'll see most of the bus would empty off passed this invisible boundary at Runnymede. Route 40 is now fully integrated but the integration itself didn't trigger the change.

The point is people don't do A, so doing B won't make people do A. Fully integrating the GTA won't bring a boom to 905 transit itself. The 905 needs to do more to attract people to transit than simple integration. Fare subsidy is another question. The TTC got rid of fare zones between the Old city and the rest of Metro Toronto. The result was downhill from running a profit to more and more subsidies every since 1973. It ain't going away.
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Heh, we could build some walls. I hear they tried it in Berlin.
 
Integration isn't desirable for the reason of increasing ridership in the suburbs. It's desirable because it's a more efficient, logical, and integrated way of doing things in a city-state whose internal borders are socio-economically meaningless.

Or, whatever, let's all keep playing in our own little transit silo sandboxes like a bunch of spoilt kids who can't share toys with the other kids.
 
afransen said:
Same with people who think Toronto the city is just the City of Toronto. City of Toronto is just a 'borough' of Toronto.
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It's been the city of Toronto since 1998 there are no separate boughs. Yes people who live here still take about and refer to the old bourghs but it's mainly to say which part of the large city of Toronto you are a part of. For example one time I was talking to someone somewhere and they said that they were from Toronto and I asked which part, they said Mississauga and I told them that I was from East York they had no idea where that was even though it is more a part of Toronto then Mississauga is.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
It's been the city of Toronto since 1998 there are no separate boughs. Yes people who live here still take about and refer to the old bourghs but it's mainly to say which part of the large city of Toronto you are a part of. For example one time I was talking to someone somewhere and they said that they were from Toronto and I asked which part, they said Mississauga and I told them that I was from East York they had no idea where that was even though it is more a part of Toronto then Mississauga is.
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Maybe you misunderstood my point: the City of Toronto is just a legal fiction. The city is the whole GTA.
 
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