[W. K. Lis]

I absolutely love the look of this mined station, I wonder why we dont do more of it? Are the costs significantly higher compared to a traditional tunnel bore through and station box construction method?

Limited number of personnel can do the work it seems.

From link.

 

[sche]

I absolutely love the look of this mined station, I wonder why we dont do more of it? Are the costs significantly higher compared to a traditional tunnel bore through and station box construction method?

Mined stations are super expensive. It's only ever worth it if there's an insane amount of utilities or buildings above making it difficult or impossible to do cut and cover.

Besides, using station aesthetics as the rationale for using a particular construction method is just not a good rationale.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Mined stations are super expensive. It's only ever worth it if there's an insane amount of utilities or buildings above making it difficult or impossible to do cut and cover.

Besides, using station aesthetics as the rationale for using a particular construction method is just not a good rationale

Mined stations are super expensive. It's only ever worth it if there's an insane amount of utilities or buildings above making it difficult or impossible to do cut and cover.

Besides, using station aesthetics as the rationale for using a particular construction method is just not a good rationale.

Really? The entire subway portion of the Ottawa system was somehow built with roadheaders for less than the new platform at Bloor and Yonge is going to cost.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Really? The entire subway portion of the Ottawa system was somehow built with roadheaders for less than the new platform at Bloor and Yonge is going to cost.

I wouldn’t compare the two projects. Retrofits have far more environmental constraints that substantially drive up the price.

 

[mdu]

Don't forget they have to keep the station operational during the entire process because of the very reason for the upgrade: it's the biggest bottleneck in the whole system.

 

[kotsy]

I absolutely love the look of this mined station,

Yep. I immediately think of the tube in London

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Yep. I immediately think of the tube in London

We have a few here in Toronto too before the crosstown line. A few of the ones along university Avenue were mined as was the tunnel between woodbine and main Street.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Well, building things in Toronto substantially drives up the price, that's for certain.

 

[kotsy]

We have a few here in Toronto too before the crosstown line. A few of the ones along university Avenue were mined as was the tunnel between woodbine and main Street.

Yep, and those also remind me of the tube because their network is synonymous with tube shaped stations/lines.

 

[superelevation]

There is a difference between city X and Y. If city X and Y were designed and built in the same way, people in X can stay in X and vice versa. The dependency would reduce hence lower congestion and lower chance of spreading COVID-19 these days too. Integrating both city won't solve the problem as X would stay in X while Y might want to go to X but X would never want to go to Y.

This kind of boarder is visible in Toronto itself. Look at Dundas and Runnymede, the boarder between Old Toronto and York. Immediately east, everything is well developed with an urban feel in The Junctions. West of it, you'll immediately feel different. Transit usage totally drops off with the 40B bus short turning leaving half as much service on the 40A. You'll see most of the bus would empty off passed this invisible boundary at Runnymede. Route 40 is now fully integrated but the integration itself didn't trigger the change.

The point is people don't do A, so doing B won't make people do A. Fully integrating the GTA won't bring a boom to 905 transit itself. The 905 needs to do more to attract people to transit than simple integration. Fare subsidy is another question. The TTC got rid of fare zones between the Old city and the rest of Metro Toronto. The result was downhill from running a profit to more and more subsidies every since 1973. It ain't going away.

But parts of the 905 are . . . look at Brampton, MiWay is slowly improving too - nobody is saying its a panacea but clearly its part of a broader sol'n

I agree with that completely and I also think that Metrolinx needs to be completely rethought and have representatives from each of the transit agencies in the GTHA as part of the board. Metrolinx wants to be transport for London but only owning a few of the lines but somehow being able to dictate what everyone else does.

"Owning lines" is not why Metrolinx has authority

An alternative is the province could buy out all of the transit agencies from their respective cites much like how all of the older tube lines in London were to merge them together.

Although I don't really think that is likely to happen either.

Why would the gov "buy out" agencies, transit is not making cities money . . . most would love to offload the cost on the province, and in many cases the province could 100% find real efficiencies by amalgamating various resources

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

But parts of the 905 are . . . look at Brampton, MiWay is slowly improving too - nobody is saying its a panacea but clearly its part of a broader sol'n

"Owning lines" is not why Metrolinx has authority

Why would the gov "buy out" agencies, transit is not making cities money . . . most would love to offload the cost on the province, and in many cases the province could 100% find real efficiencies by amalgamating various resources

I suggested buying them as a gesture of goodwill to compansste the cities for the money that they have already spent on building the infrastructure in the first place.

I highly doubt that the province would be able to run public transit more efficiently then is already being done in Toronto, other cities outside of Toronto do need help though as most of their public transit consists of getting people to go train stations then anywhere else.

 

[Steve X]

I suggested buying them as a gesture of goodwill to compansste the cities for the money that they have already spent on building the infrastructure in the first place.

I highly doubt that the province would be able to run public transit more efficiently then is already being done in Toronto, other cities outside of Toronto do need help though as most of their public transit consists of getting people to go train stations then anywhere else.

Let's remember how the city is allowed to get its money. For Toronto, it's the City of Toronto Act, 2006, a provincial legislation. Operation of a public transit system by the city could simply be revoked. There's no need for gesture of goodwill.

 

[Jaye101]

I suggested buying them as a gesture of goodwill to compansste the cities for the money that they have already spent on building the infrastructure in the first place.

I highly doubt that the province would be able to run public transit more efficiently then is already being done in Toronto, other cities outside of Toronto do need help though as most of their public transit consists of getting people to go train stations then anywhere else.

Maybe the TTC should just take over Metrolinx.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Maybe the TTC should just take over Metrolinx.

I think they could probably run it better than it is now at least they would actually work with other transit agencies to solve problems with things like fare integration instead of wasting time and money on doing a study on wayfinding that created a problem and then a saloution to it.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Really? The entire subway portion of the Ottawa system was somehow built with roadheaders for less than the new platform at Bloor and Yonge is going to cost.

Ottawa's geology is extremely conductive to tunnels, which made it quite cheap. The downtown is essentially built on a gigantic bluff of the Canadian Shield - hard, solid rock that is easy to mine.

Toronto's bedrock is primarily limestone and is typically at a deeper level. Softer rock make it way, way more expensive.