[sixrings]

NIMBYs are a double edged sword. Sometimes they're throwing a hissy fit over nothing (Ontario Line and Yonge North), and sometimes they have a bloody point (Scarborough). At Grade LRT was always a bad idea on Eglinton, and this is one aspect of transit planning that Rob Ford absolutely hit the nail on the head (too bad about everything else with his Mayorship). I really, really hope we find a way to grade separate Eglinton East sooner than later.

For the record I drive eglinton west every single day and was an advocate for the at grade lrt because it saved money to be spent on other projects.

 

[ARG1]

The NIMBYs are complaining how it will affect the cars, not how it will affect the operation of the LRT. This is also one of the factors driving the unwillingness to implement transit priority - it wasn't a "bloody point".

AoD

Perhaps I used overly aggressive language, but the primary Scarborough argument was that they were getting overly cheap stuff after years of being handed overly cheap stuff. The Scarborough LRT was just a worse version of the SRT Refurbishment plan. Line 5 was just a streetcar. Sheppard Subway was cancelled and replaced with another LRT (which again they rightfully saw as just a streetcar). Making any opposition to LRTs look like its just a bunch of car owners who don't want trains on their streets is the type of conversation degradation in this city that makes transit discussion in this city incredibly toxic, especially when a ton of Scarboroughites had a valid point about transit construction that have very little to do with drivers.

For the record I drive eglinton west every single day and was an advocate for the at grade lrt because it saved money to be spent on other projects.

Ok and? Why does it matter that you drive on Eglinton West? I'm arguing purely from the perspective of the transit rider, and couldn't care less about what the drivers think.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Perhaps I used overly aggressive language, but the primary Scarborough argument was that they were getting overly cheap stuff after years of being handed overly cheap stuff. The Scarborough LRT was just a worse version of the SRT Refurbishment plan. Line 5 was just a streetcar. Sheppard Subway was cancelled and replaced with another LRT (which again they rightfully saw as just a streetcar). Making any opposition to LRTs look like its just a bunch of car owners who don't want trains on their streets is the type of conversation degradation in this city, when a ton of Scarboroughites had a valid point about transit construction.

What does that have *anything* to do with willingness or not to implement transit priority? You now have a built system; you need to maximize value out of that system - and you need transit priority to do it.

AoD

 

[ARG1]

What does that have *anything* to do with willingness or not to implement transit priority? You now have a built system; you need to maximize value out of that system - and you need transit priority to do it.

AoD

This has nothing to do with TSP. I was responding to a comment talking about NIMBYism and the perception of LRT naysayers saying that these LRTs are glorified streetcars.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

This has nothing to do with TSP. I was responding to a comment talking about NIMBYism and the perception of LRT naysayers saying that these LRTs are glorified streetcars.

What I am saying is that NIMBYism cuts even in this case, and it isn't a good thing just because it aligns with your own preferences.

AoD

 

[ARG1]

What I am saying is that NIMBYism cuts even in this case, and it isn't a good thing just because it aligns with your own preferences.

AoD

Is it NIMBYism or is it a lack of political will to actually provide TSP, because the pro LRT councilors are more interested in taking away lanes from Car users than to provide good transit. A major problem with the "anti TSP is pro Car" argument is that this isn't actually the case. TSP is a massive benefit to car users as it means those driving along Eglinton are more likely to encounter Green lights while driving along Eglinton, especially if the LRT is operating at higher frequencies. Plus Hurontario and Finch west will have TSP despite the areas those LRTs pass through (at least I'd assume) would have way more pro car NIMBYish tendancies.

If Car oriented NIMBYs had their way like you claim they are, we wouldn't be removing left turn lanes at most intersections, and we would have LRT + 3 lanes per direction on Eglinton like York Region is doing on Highway 7.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Is it NIMBYism or is it a lack of political will to actually provide TSP, because the pro LRT councilors are more interested in taking away lanes from Car users than to provide good transit. A major problem with the "anti TSP is pro Car" argument is that this isn't actually the case. TSP is a massive benefit to car users as it means those driving along Eglinton are more likely to encounter Green lights while driving along Eglinton, especially if the LRT is operating at higher frequencies. Plus Hurontario and Finch west will have TSP despite the areas those LRTs pass through (at least I'd assume) would have way more pro car NIMBYish tendancies.

Now you are blaming pro-LRT politicians for not providing TSP? Come on - AFAIK, the pro-subway fraction of the council is currently in power at the city, no?

AoD

 

[ARG1]

Now you are blaming pro-LRT politicians for not providing TSP? Come on.

AoD

I am. Where was Paul Ainslie complaining on twitter when it was announced that Eglinton won't have TSP, meanwhile he is more than happy to rant about how Doug Ford is burying Eglinton West.

 

[sixrings]

Now you are blaming pro-LRT politicians for not providing TSP? Come on - AFAIK, the pro-subway fraction of the council is currently in power at the city, no?

AoD

The good guys are in charge now. The bad guys were in charge when these decisions were made. It’s pretty simple.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I am. Where was Paul Ainslie complaining on twitter when it was announced that Eglinton won't have TSP, meanwhile he is more than happy to rant about how Doug Ford is burying Eglinton West.

So what if he doesn't complain on Twitter? Because he can dictate policy? What is the city council, and the mayor going to do about this issue of not having transit priority for a newly built transit line that can benefit from it - that is the question.

AoD

 

[ARG1]

So what if he doesn't complain on Twitter? Because he can dictate policy? What is the city council, and the mayor going to do about this issue of not having transit priority?

AoD

Last I checked not having TSP was a local decision done by the councilor in the area, presumably Michael Thompson. Eglinton East is actually TSP ready, but it won't be enabled on opening day. If there is anyone with the ability to do something, it would be the mayor and the city council.

 

[ARG1]

The good guys are in charge now. The bad guys were in charge when these decisions were made. It’s pretty simple.

The good guys are in charge now? Where? Not in City Council at least...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Last I checked not having TSP was a local decision done by the councilor in the area, presumably Michael Thompson. Eglinton East is actually TSP ready, but it won't be enabled on opening day. If there is anyone with the ability to do something, it would be the mayor and the city council.

Which is my point - city council and the mayor need to put money where their mouth is on TSP; and if as you say TSP is a local decision, give me a conjecture as to why a councillor wouldn't want it? Could it be, I don't know, NIMBYism and inconveniences to a segment of the constituents?

AoD

 

[ARG1]

Which is my point - city council and the mayor need to put money where their mouth is on TSP; and if as you say TSP is a local decision, give me a conjecture as to why a councillor wouldn't want it? Could it be, I don't know, NIMBYism and inconveniences to a segment of the constituents?

AoD

Ok, but can you also claim this is the same NIMBYism that buried the Scarborough LRT which was @sixrings original example. Tell me why pro-car Nimbys would care if the Scarborough LRT was a subway when that didn't even have a median segment? Perhaps its because it goes far deeper than just not wanting trains next to cars...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Ok, but can you also claim this is the same NIMBYism that buried the Scarborough LRT which was @sixrings original example. Tell me why pro-car Nimbys would care if the Scarborough LRT was a subway when that didn't even have a median segment? Perhaps its because it goes far deeper than just not wanting trains next to cars...

I don't subscribe to the notion that NIMBYism alone is the issue in the transit saga in Scarborough; having said so, can you explain to me why say ECWest is underground instead elevated? I can't think of that many alternate explanation other than it being NIMBYism.

So clearly NIMBYism cuts in many ways to the deteriment of implementing transit, but I am not sure why some forms of it is more acceptable than other - just because the outcomes aligns with one's priorities doesn't make it right or desirable.

AoD