Voltz
Senior Member
Testing at full speed does not mean necessarily mean they are simulating regular service, until that happens then I would not jump to conclusions.
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felix123
Active Member
What the video suggests is that the service will run more slowly than it should, like the streetcar, regardless of whether the vehicle speed hits 60km/h in operation.
I am just as hopeful that on opening day, LRTs won't wait at traffic lights. But if I had money on it, I wouldn't bet that way.
picard102
Senior Member
How can the video suggest anything? They are testing trains still, the line isn't open. I certainly wouldn't expect TPS to even be active until the line is near operation.
felix123
Active Member
It only suggests that, as of now, Line 5 is slowed significantly by traffic lights. Maybe it will improve, but we are getting close to the line's opening, so I am not sure how much longer they would wait to activate TSP. They would want the line to be tested with it active.
T3G
Senior Member
The video posted shows the test equipment stationary for an extended period of time. What evidence is there to suggest this means the service will run slower than it should? There are a million possible reasons why the rolling stock could be idling.
As for the actual signal priority, what I have heard is that a green light will only hold for the trains if that train is behind schedule. This doesn't seem like an optimal solution, but again this is not something that someone could figure out in any capacity from watching your linked video.
felix123
Active Member
Steve X
Senior Member
I watched a train leave Mount Dennis last week. It went slowly and stopped right before the switches at the junction to the yard like a TTC streetcar does. Waited a whole minute while the driver did something in the cab, then it slowly went across the bridge and into the tunnel. Doesn't look like full speed yet.
fanoftoronto
Active Member
Folks, these are anecdotal experiences. We don't have eyes on the track 100% of the time. We don't know how testing is going below ground. There is no way for us to definitively state anything about how testing is going.
For now, we have to go with the information being provided to us and hope the operational date doesn't move too much into the future.
There is light at the end of this very looooong tunnel!
T3G
Senior Member
Except that doesn't tell the full story. Why was the train idling there for more than a minute in the first place, and why was it wrong railing?
I don't know what the angle is with regards to transit priority after an extended hold at a stop. I presume regular transit priority works by having the vehicle send a signal or trigger something that lets the signal know it's coming, and to change it in time. But if the vehicle is stopped for a extended period of time, how is it supposed to communicate that it's ready? If the signal held for it during the entire time that the vehicle was at the stop, the cross street would never get its light. How can the signal detect that the vehicle has completed its dwell and is ready to continue?
Except for when there is a red signal or overwhelming passenger loads, I have never seen even a subway train idle at a station for more than a minute. We don't know from the non existent context of the video if this was a simulation of extended dwell times, if there was some kind of technical problem with the vehicle that prevented it from moving off, if they were waiting for someone to take a phone call or use the bathroom. From the fact that the car was wrong railing it is clear to me that this was not a demonstration of regular, day to day running, and even if there was functional TP I don't know why you'd have it on the opposite track. It's just another piece of machinery you have to maintain.
Again, as I noted above, it doesn't seem there will be transit priority except if the vehicle is behind the schedule. But if we are going to criticize the project for its implementation of transit priority, we should do so based on the known facts, rather than speculation.
felix123
Active Member
Here's another one from yesterday. It's not wrong-railing in this one, stops at a light, waits for the advance-left, then trundles over the intersection to its stop.
It's looking a lot like the 510.
It's looking a lot like the 510.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
We know from previous announcements that it will not be getting full transit priority. It's not a new thing.
TSP will only be activated if the trains are behind schedule, but generally what happened in that last video is exactly what will happen when it is in service.
TSP will only be activated if the trains are behind schedule, but generally what happened in that last video is exactly what will happen when it is in service.
Northern Light
Superstar
Accurate. Though entirely wrong-headed on the part of the City.
Steve X
Senior Member
The question is how would this work? The operator sets his shift/schedule in the system and it automatically determines if the train needs priority upon arriving at an intersection?
Or does the operator manually pushes the button? This would be much easier to implement but subject to misuse.
The more obviously improvement is to move to a protected lagging left turn phase, especially since trains will see a red signal first before cars on Eglinton giving them plenty of time to clear the intersection.
felix123
Active Member
Exactly. And this appears to showcase the impact of that decision.
Edit to add: if TSP isn't activated every time an LRT would otherwise encounter a red light, I think the underground section will be noticeably affected. Dwell times in underground, metro-like stations will be unacceptably long. My hope is that the city thinks better of their TSP decision, when that happens.
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ARG1
Senior Member
I mean, dwell times will be long simply by nature of it being low floor. Low floor means more erratic door spacing, as well as less doors period. This means more people bunching trying to exit and enter the train, and thus the train dwells for much longer. Compare dwell times in Ottawa vs Toronto for a good comparison.