[picard102]

Don't most pedestrian deaths occur at intersections, as opposed to the high speed midblock sections?

The opposite I believe. Due to pedestrians entering the roadway unsafely.

 

[W. K. Lis]

And those streets you posted photos of have limits of 60, so they are not exactly slow!

Signs are useless, when the roadways themselves are DESIGNED for the "safety" of speeders doing 100+ km/h, and not for pedestrians nor cyclists.

 

[turbanplanner]

Enforcement, but I'd also like to see a system like they have in Japan where everyone has to watch a video about driving safely and rules every time one renews one's license (so once every 5 years or so after your first renewal which is after 1 year I think). This would also help those who got their license in a small town and never had to deal with all the different conditions of big cities. Heck, I wouldn't even mind if they added a quiz one had to pass every 5 years too.

Nearly nothing that works in Japan would work here. The entire issue with our driving is culture. If you head to small town Ontario aside from speeding on the tiny highways everyone follows most of the laws in my experience.

Our culture in the cities is very me first so people will do shitty things like use left turn lanes to go straight or make a right turn because me me me.

Don't most pedestrian deaths occur at intersections, as opposed to the high speed midblock sections?


In my time, Newmarket was known as one of the easiest locations. I heard Downsview was tougher.

Yes and no. The ones that stand out to me are people crossing mid block. There are lots of areas with ZERO pedestrians that were affected.

Like I said though what should be done for Toronto vs Vaughn is not the same. Even in Toronto we need different approaches for different areas.

 

[evandyk]

And eglinton has totally grade separated pedestrian and bike trails. I get lowing the limits in areas with actual pedestrians like warden etc (have you driven on those streets above?)

I lived downtown and worked at Dixie and Eglinton for years, so I have driven the western arterials many many times. The problem for safety isn't the separated sidewalks, it's the long distances between crosswalks.

Given the safety benefits of reducing speed, there's really no good reason to have 80 vs 50 or 60 speed limits there. It won't make your cross-city trip any faster.

 

[ARG1]

Don't most pedestrian deaths occur at intersections, as opposed to the high speed midblock sections?


In my time, Newmarket was known as one of the easiest locations. I heard Downsview was tougher.

My experience is going through the liscencing process back in '17-'18, as well as testimonies from around the same time till today. From what I have heard of Downsview, it might be tougher than Newmarket (although many of the reasons for this might be due to the far busier location, especially for the highway exam), however that doesn't stop Newmarket from being tough on it's own terms. Newmarket is still way tougher than many of the other locations on the outskirts or right outside the GTHA.

 

[turbanplanner]

I lived downtown and worked at Dixie and Eglinton for years, so I have driven the western arterials many many times. The problem for safety isn't the separated sidewalks, it's the long distances between crosswalks.

Given the safety benefits of reducing speed, there's really no good reason to have 80 vs 50 or 60 speed limits there. It won't make your cross-city trip any faster.

I fully disagree. I notice a massive difference in how long my tips take. ESPECIALLY because the light timing hasn't been changed so I'll now hit every red light.

There are sections of highway 27 with ZERO sidewalks or on the intersections, but we're significantly lowering limits for "pedestrian safety"? This is just change for the sake of looking like they're doing something, which just reduces trust in people that the planners actually know what they are doing.

There's the bonus effect of me now driving 70 in a 60 (when people used to do 85) are now tailgating me.

 

[turbanplanner]

Signs are useless, when the roadways themselves are DESIGNED for the "safety" of speeders doing 100+ km/h, and not for pedestrians nor cyclists.

The fact it's called highway 7 or highway 27 didn't convey the road is supposed to be for high speed travel in rural sections?

 

[drum118]

My experience is going through the liscencing process back in '17-'18, as well as testimonies from around the same time till today. From what I have heard of Downsview, it might be tougher than Newmarket (although many of the reasons for this might be due to the far busier location, especially for the highway exam), however that doesn't stop Newmarket from being tough on it's own terms. Newmarket is still way tougher than many of the other locations on the outskirts or right outside the GTHA.

Off Topic
I got my licence the old fashion way at Downsview by doing real road test on a wet day. The only thing I was asked after getting back to the test centre, why was I driving a few miles under the speed limit at time? I said the roads were slick and was told a good reason to go slower, otherwise pass with no issues. Don't believe in these non real life testing on a parking lot setup, but looks like a liability issue today. I am sure if you put today drivers being tested out on the real road, 75% would fail their testing with most not fit to behind the wheel in the first place.

Was watching a stop sign location at Sherway while waiting for the 123 and 90% drove through the stop sign considering there is a speed bump there with pedestrians in the crosswalk.

Have driven Eglinton during construction, most drivers were clueless in how to deal with it or even drive it. The last time I drove it back in June when it was back to normal in many places, drivers fail to understand traffic signs let alone drive on it. Speeding a big issue.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Off Topic
I got my licence the old fashion way at Downsview by doing real road test on a wet day. The only thing I was asked after getting back to the test centre, why was I driving a few miles under the speed limit at time? I said the roads were slick and was told a good reason to go slower, otherwise pass with no issues. Don't believe in these non real life testing on a parking lot setup, but looks like a liability issue today. I am sure if you put today drivers being tested out on the real road, 75% would fail their testing with most not fit to behind the wheel in the first place.

Was watching a stop sign location at Sherway while waiting for the 123 and 90% drove through the stop sign considering there is a speed bump there with pedestrians in the crosswalk.

Have driven Eglinton during construction, most drivers were clueless in how to deal with it or even drive it. The last time I drove it back in June when it was back to normal in many places, drivers fail to understand traffic signs let alone drive on it. Speeding a big issue.

Compare with Germany...

From link.

Learning how to drive in Germany​

1. Take an eye test​

To apply for almost all categories of driving licence, you will first have to pass an eye test at an optician or eye specialist (the cost of this is often covered by your health insurance). If there are any irregularities with your health, or if you are applying for a category C or D licence, you will have to submit to a medical exam as well. Anyone older than 50 has to repeat these tests every five years.

2. Complete a first aid course​

All driving licence applicants are also required to attend an “instruction in life support” first aid course (Erste Hilfe Kurs). This course is usually delivered by the German Red Cross (Deutsches Rotes Kreuz), costs 40 euros and lasts around eight hours.

3. Enrol at a driving school (Fahrschule)​

In Germany, the theoretical and practical driving tests are conducted through driving schools (Fahrschulen). Therefore, in order to take these tests, you will need to be enrolled at a driving school. Often you are also required to have proof that you have enrolled before you can be issued with a licence by the driving licensing authority.

If you are learning to drive for the first time, you must go to a driving school; lay instruction is not permitted (i.e. you cannot be taught by a friend or family member). German law dictates that you must attend at least 14 lessons of theory classes and 12 practical lessons of “special training rides” (Sonderfahrten). You must complete these classes before you can apply for your theory or practical tests.

If you already have a driving licence, you won’t need to start from scratch. Many driving schools offer instruction for individuals who already know how to drive, preparing them for the test in Germany. It is worth seeking this out, as it can save you a lot of money in the long run (this modified kind of instruction usually costs around 500 euros rather than the 1.500-2.000 euros required for a full-length driving course).

4. Request a licence​

Once you have the required documentation, you can make an appointment to apply for your licence. This step is only necessary for those that don’t already have a driving licence (German or foreign). It will cover you while you are learning to drive.

5. Take the theory test​

When you are ready to take it, your driving school will arrange for you to sit your theory test (Theorieprüfung). It is usually possible to sit this exam in English, although you might have to pay extra. The test consists of 30 multiple-choice questions, worth a total of 110 points. You are only allowed to make 10 points’ worth of mistakes. Preparing sufficiently for this test is very important, as around a third of people fail the theory exam in Germany.

6. Take the practical test​

Your practical test (praktische Prüfung) will also be arranged by your driving school. You must take the practical test within 12 months of passing your theory test. Depending on the licence category you are applying for, the test usually lasts between 30 and 75 minutes. You will be accompanied by your examiner and instructor; the examiner usually sits in the back seat to assess your driving skills. The exam is generally conducted in German, so it might be worth taking a German language class to brush up on some common driving terms.

On the day of the exam, don’t forget to bring your passport (either your German passport or foreign one) or your identity card, and your glasses, if you need them.

If you pass the practical driving test, you will be issued with a temporary paper driving licence. You will need to collect your permanent one from the licensing authority office; it is usually ready within four weeks. You are not normally able to book an appointment, so be aware that you may have to wait in line when collecting it.

Note that within the first two years of passing the German driving tests, you are “on probation”, meaning that if you commit any violations during this period you run the risk of losing your licence. During the trial period, there is a total ban on alcohol consumption.

 

[felix123]

Off Topic
I got my licence the old fashion way at Downsview by doing real road test on a wet day. The only thing I was asked after getting back to the test centre, why was I driving a few miles under the speed limit at time? I said the roads were slick and was told a good reason to go slower, otherwise pass with no issues. Don't believe in these non real life testing on a parking lot setup, but looks like a liability issue today. I am sure if you put today drivers being tested out on the real road, 75% would fail their testing with most not fit to behind the wheel in the first place.

Was watching a stop sign location at Sherway while waiting for the 123 and 90% drove through the stop sign considering there is a speed bump there with pedestrians in the crosswalk.

Have driven Eglinton during construction, most drivers were clueless in how to deal with it or even drive it. The last time I drove it back in June when it was back to normal in many places, drivers fail to understand traffic signs let alone drive on it. Speeding a big issue.

I believe it's tougher to be licensed now than it was in your apparently pre-metric system times.

First of all, road tests in Ontario aren't taken in parking lots, and secondly, you now need to take two ~30 minute road tests, not just one.
The first road test is on regular roads but avoids 400-series highways, per G1 licence restrictions.
The second test does involve 400-series highways.

 

[pmacpherson68]

I think we can all agree that driving has become worse... more distractions, more cars, more bikes, etc... etc... but interestingly enough, your chance of being killed in automobile accidents has almost halved in the last 20 years which is due I think in large part to safety devices, airbags, etc... I suspect that this trend will continue to decline with the advent of more AI and advanced safety mechanisms... lets hope.

 

[evandyk]

That's true, but the number of pedestrians killed by drivers has been pretty steady, even edging up a little.

 

[turbanplanner]

That's true, but the number of pedestrians killed by drivers has been pretty steady, even edging up a little.

I wonder what's the breakdown?

I notice ~half of the deaths I see are downtown and usually due to construction vehicles like cement trucks rushing.

 

[Natika33]

Nearly nothing that works in Japan would work here. The entire issue with our driving is culture. If you head to small town Ontario aside from speeding on the tiny highways everyone follows most of the laws in my experience.

Our culture in the cities is very me first so people will do shitty things like use left turn lanes to go straight or make a right turn because me me me.

Yes and no. The ones that stand out to me are people crossing mid block. There are lots of areas with ZERO pedestrians that were affected.

Like I said though what should be done for Toronto vs Vaughn is not the same. Even in Toronto we need different approaches for different areas.

Though we definitely do have a lot more of a me me me mindset, having a soft "re-certification" process is not a bad idea (which is essentially what having to watch a video & complete a quiz is). Most professions require a certain amount of learning hours to keep one's license, so why not driving? I learned to drive in a small town and yeah, I could have studied again on my own once I moved to Toronto, but I doubt I'm the only lazy-ass who a) didn't & b) forgot all those "theoretical" rules that hadn't applied before. It would also update anyone who may have gotten their license before a new traffic rule came into effect. Instead of discounting the idea entirely, we could tweak it.

 

[toronto647]

Does anybody know what is going on with the Crosstown LRT from a completion update stand point? The last was Phil Vester's letter stating no timeline followed by CBC news reporting an insider has mentioned the line will come in operation at the end of 2023.

Or does no one including Metrolinx, Ministry of Transportation, TTC, Crosslinx Consortium have any idea when this line will become open?