Railrunner
Active Member
I think what's more likely is that the line will be adapted to be fully grade-separated at some point in the future. Drivers will absolutely cause major issues by running in to LRVs.
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turbanplanner
Senior Member
how often does a car hit a streetcar? We should worry about bigger issues.
Looking at the delay reasons there was almost 1000 last year for cleaning - unsanitary (so people pooping or bleeding or whatever in the vehicle)
collisions was ~560 but that doesn't necessarily mean a streetcar (could be a bus blocking a route) Also most I saw were less than 10 mins of delays)
Security incidents were ~1400
Mechanical (on a fairly new fleet) was almost 1700
junctionist
Senior Member
Another issue that might arise is that the TTC might have to reduce operating speeds for the at-grade portion due to jaywalkers and the resulting liability issues. It's hard to say if it'll become an issue at this point, though.
The commercial uses along Eglinton in Scarborough and the future density are going to generate plenty of pedestrian traffic (not to mention the LRT itself). On the other hand, it'll certainly be an intimidating street for potential jaywalkers due to its width and traffic loads.
The commercial uses along Eglinton in Scarborough and the future density are going to generate plenty of pedestrian traffic (not to mention the LRT itself). On the other hand, it'll certainly be an intimidating street for potential jaywalkers due to its width and traffic loads.
Amare
Senior Member
Not going to happen in our lifetimes; by the time any option is considered to address to bottleneck along the eastern strech of the line, we'll be looking at building alternative lines to alleviate the pressure.
See my note above, it wont happen.
drum118
Superstar
Starting next week and for the next 3 weeks, Rolling closures of Eglinton between Black Creek and the rail corridor will take place for the installing of the fence system that is still missing. Once done, the north sidewalk and bike lane will reopen finally.
drum118
Superstar
As noted, not going to happen in your lifetime, if at all. Would be faster to build it underground as you only need a year of construction to do the switch over compare ripping out the line and build the elevated section.
I guess you don't know what is under the current ROW today that will play a large part of staying as is??
APTA-2048
Senior Member
If they want a capacity boost, they could look for a future train design that is not 100% low floor. It would be custom, but we could get a trainset that has both high floor sections and accessible low floor sections.
NoahB
Active Member
I find it amusing that people pretend the city never replaced lines before. Lines 1 and 2 used to be streetcars. Eglinton and Finch are being switched from busses. The TTC and city council botched the Scarborough RT Mark II upgrades which got the SRT switched to Subway TRs in a tunnel. The likelihood is very small that the Crosstown would be changed but it does exist. It is even smaller during the 30-year maintenance contract. But that is not forever.
The Crosstown might not switch to high floors. (As much as I wish they would) But it could be grade separated over time or as a big project. LA is incrementally grade-separating parts of LRTs now. Melbourne elevated 8km as part of their level crossing removal project for their suburban 'metro' rail in a right of way that was narrower than Eglinton in Scarborough. They didn't even need to shut down the line while building literally on top of it. Tokyo is a famous example of their lines being upgraded over time to be fully grade separated and high capacity. These things are possible. The only thing needed is civil and political will.
When the West Extention opens Eglinton Line 5 will be 19km grade-separated and 9km on street. That is more grade-separated kilometers than the length of the Ontario Line.
The Crosstown might not switch to high floors. (As much as I wish they would) But it could be grade separated over time or as a big project. LA is incrementally grade-separating parts of LRTs now. Melbourne elevated 8km as part of their level crossing removal project for their suburban 'metro' rail in a right of way that was narrower than Eglinton in Scarborough. They didn't even need to shut down the line while building literally on top of it. Tokyo is a famous example of their lines being upgraded over time to be fully grade separated and high capacity. These things are possible. The only thing needed is civil and political will.
When the West Extention opens Eglinton Line 5 will be 19km grade-separated and 9km on street. That is more grade-separated kilometers than the length of the Ontario Line.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
Or they could just get longer light rail vehicles.
One Flexity Freedom is 30.8 m in length. Two car train would put that to over 60 m, but with couplers between the two cars.
Budapest is using a URBOS 3 CAF that is 55.9 m in length.
ARG1
Senior Member
The City never had to refurbish existing underground stations and tunnels to support high floor platforms though.
Dan416
Senior Member
When did LA give their lines letters (just noticed the purple line is now referred to as the D line).
DirectionNorth
Active Member
... at the time of the Line 1/2 upgrades, the cost of construction was much cheaper than today.
Scarborough Subway Extension is a bondoogle, an overexpensive project meant to further the government's political goals.
In neither of those examples was existing infrastructure (track, platforms, catenary, etc.) retained, but rather, a new system built. Could we re-jig the ELRT for a metro? Yes, but by 2050, building a parallel line will be better value for money.
Centinela Grade Separation is not a convincing example, $500 million for a single grade separation along a brand-new LRT line.
It's possible, just very expensive, and we have plenty of places to put extra capital dollars (if it was burning a hole in our collective pockets, which it isn't).
Los Angeles renamed their Metro, LRT, and BRT lines around 2019-2020.
Amare
Senior Member
The Scarborough RT is getting replaced because it's literally crumbling apart and that's entirely on the city. I dont see Metrolinx allowing the Crosstown to fall into such a state of disrepair.
To upgrade a line from bus to LRT/subway is entirely different discussion. We've replaced the Bloor-Danforth line from streetcar operations to heavy rail...in an entirely different political climate. I think those days are long behind us in Toronto.
Toronto is not LA or Tokyo, as you saw with the Scarborough RT debacle, it's clearly not easy for this city to replace a rail line that's literally about to crumble away. Not even talking about replacing/upgrading a rapid transit line which is at capacity. In any case Metrolinx holds all the cards with the Crosstown line, and I dont see them upgrading this line asides from the 3rd train we'll see once the line builds ridership through demand.
CapitalSeven
Senior Member
It's more accurate to say the Scarborough line is crumbling because it's being replaced. The city dithered for years on what to do with it. It could easily have been maintained and then adapted to a new generation of light metro or light rail. But because the decision was to replace it with a subway, it was allowed to fall apart.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Instead of upgrading Line 5 in the future an alternate heavy duty line could approximate its route, like a GO Midtown line, particularly if it’s a TTC line.