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Ozman said:
Metrolinx talks about the penalty they'll have to pay to Crosslinx (the contractor) if the vehicles are late. Is this normal for a customer to agree to pay the contractor they hired to build the project a penalty fee if part of the project isn't supplied to the contractor on time?
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Kinda, yes.

Metrolinx is actually a subcontractor in this case too. More importantly, Metrolinx also will not take ownership of the line (or pay the invoice!) until the line is production ready. Crosslinx has carrying costs (due to delayed payment) and maintenance costs for the new infrastructure during that interim period.

In short, since Metrolinx wrote themselves in as a subcontractor, they have the normal penalties that any major subcontractor on the project has.

The maintenance part of the agreement is coming straight out of TTC fare revenues (plus some probably), and TTC certainly isn't paying operations costs for a line that isn't production ready.
 
Allandale25 said:
Cameron from CodeRedTO has the surplus listed as follows in a tweet here:

1MGvV1D.jpg
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That's completely out to lunch. The Waterloo cars (14 of them - though they do have an option for another 14) aren't part of Metrolinx's 182. The total Flexity Freedom's on order is 196. Eglinton is 76. Finch West is 23 (Sheppard East is 35, and the SRT was 48). And of course the numbers include spares ...
 
nfitz said:
That's completely out to lunch. The Waterloo cars (14 of them - though they do have an option for another 14) aren't part of Metrolinx's 182. The total Flexity Freedom's on order is 196. Eglinton is 76. Finch West is 23 (Sheppard East is 35, and the SRT was 48). And of course the numbers include spares ...
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Of course those were cooked up. The Bombardier and Alstom LRVs are even equivalent. The total does include 15% spare. 15% is not a good ratio for a line with a small fleet like the ION and Finch. 20% makes more sense in that case. A collision on one LRV would take 7% out of the ION leaving them with one spare. That would be bad.

The ION does have a 16 vehicle option that Metrolinx could sell to KW. ML still claims Sheppard will happen one day and thus those LRVs won't be wasted. If Crosstown West and East both gets built, a large number would be allocated there.

This Alstom order has to be pretty much the same as the Ottawa ones so ML doesn't need a prototype to go through climate and regulation testing. They only got 1.5 years to start manufacturing the production vehicles and they don't have time to sort out any issues with a new design. They'll need a least half a year to acquire a factory and train people. The parts will probably roll off the current Ottawa LRV assembly line.
 
Steve X said:
This Alstom order has to be pretty much the same as the Ottawa ones so ML doesn't need a prototype to go through climate and regulation testing. They only got 1.5 years to start manufacturing the production vehicles and they don't have time to sort out any issues with a new design. They'll need a least half a year to acquire a factory and train people. The parts will probably roll off the current Ottawa LRV assembly line.
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Aren't the cars ordered for Crosstown from BBD the same as the ones for Waterloo? If so, and there is no need for a separate prototype for the Alstoms, why is ML so hung up on getting a separate prototype from BBD? (should be noted that BBD says their prototype is ready anyway).
 
TheTigerMaster said:
This looks terrible. Hopefully this is just a quick render thrown together for the announcement, and not a reflection of final design.
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If they are anything like the ones in Ottawa I hope they never see use in Toronto as they look hideous, the Ottawa ones are very box like and not streamlined like the Flexes are.
 
nfitz said:
That's completely out to lunch. The Waterloo cars (14 of them - though they do have an option for another 14) aren't part of Metrolinx's 182. The total Flexity Freedom's on order is 196. Eglinton is 76. Finch West is 23 (Sheppard East is 35, and the SRT was 48). And of course the numbers include spares ...
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They were a part of the order until Metrolinx started delaying things so Bombardier apparently negotiated with them to send them production cars to use as prototypes much like they did with the TTC. I still say most of this mess is due to City Council dragging it's feet on approval plus Metrolinx deciding to go against the original pan of opening the tunneled section first and then the outside section as it's completed. Metrolinx has no previous experience with building anything lie this project and they seem to be behind schedule yet aged at the same time and not know what they are doing. They have only ever had one meeting with the TTC executive council and still haven't figured anything out about how things will work regarding payment of fare, and operation of the Crosstown line. Meanwhile the TTC is on track with the TYSE despite having some construction delays.
 
TOareaFan said:
Aren't the cars ordered for Crosstown from BBD the same as the ones for Waterloo? If so, and there is no need for a separate prototype for the Alstoms, why is ML so hung up on getting a separate prototype from BBD? (should be noted that BBD says their prototype is ready anyway).
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Originally the prototype was supposed to be used in Waterloo but because Metrolinx kept making changes to the design it got delayed. All this is based I what I've figured out from post on twitter and her etc. From what I can tell Bombardier negotiated privately with Waterloo and Ion to deliver to them ahead of Metrolinx because Metrolinx was dragging it's feet and playing kindergarten games.
 
robmausser said:
They look sleek to me...

tn_ca-ottawa-confederation-citadissprint-mock-up-sideview.jpg
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that's not the final product its a mock up for public display well they were building it.


That's what they look lie fully built. But hey to each their own I had someone on my youtube channle try and tell me that Montreal's new trains were nicer then the Toronto Rocket trains.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
that's not the final product its a mock up for public display well they were building it.



That's what they look lie fully built. But hey to each their own I had someone on my youtube channle try and tell me that Montreal's new trains were nicer then the Toronto Rocket trains.
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What's the difference between the one you posted in the video and the mockup? They look identical to me, but the video you posted doesn't have the livery on it.

This video has a fully completed car, and it looks pretty sleek:

 
Tuscani01 said:
What's the difference between the one you posted in the video and the mockup? They look identical to me, but the video you posted doesn't have the livery on it.
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Not sure but either way I still think they are ugly just like how someone on my youtube channel said the Toronto Rocket were ugly compared to montreal's Toy subway trains. To each their own, I just don't see what Metrolinx is trying to do other then waste taxpayer money for no reason at all, I've been against them since they were formed and it was announced they we taking over the building of the line and all of the Transit City projects that subsequently got canceled by a bunch of counselors in Toronto tah think they know everything because they were elected. Every single delay on this project is the Fault of Metrolinx and Toronto Council changing the plans they just want someone else to blame and Bombardier is convent because it's in the news because of the problem with the TTC order.
 
Tuscani01 said:
What's the difference between the one you posted in the video and the mockup? They look identical to me, but the video you posted doesn't have the livery on it.

This video has a fully completed car, and it looks pretty sleek:

Click to expand...

When I saw the fully assembled car testing a few months back, I honestly thought they hadn't installed the exterior paneling yet. It's boxy, and those slats above the window make it look unfinished.
 
The surplus of LRV could be an incentive to green light more lines such as Waterfront LRT and use the rest for Eglinton Crosstown extension.
 
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