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smallspy said:
Those costs don't go away just because the line is elevated. That structure still needs to be inspected and maintained. Maybe they don't need a signalling system anymore - but if you want to automate it, it's going to need it, and all of the costs associated with it. Life-safety systems can be simplified, but they still need to exist. And the ongoing maintenance of the other systems becomes more complex as more specialized equipment is needed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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The worst situation occurs when trespassers get into the tunnels or bridge and put graffiti and the walls. Risking life and limb in the process.

Good thing the TTC is pretty fast in getting rid of the graffiti. Just one of the reasons why the subway closes down at night to handle the jobs.
 
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smallspy said:
Those costs don't go away just because the line is elevated. That structure still needs to be inspected and maintained. Maybe they don't need a signalling system anymore - but if you want to automate it, it's going to need it, and all of the costs associated with it. Life-safety systems can be simplified, but they still need to exist. And the ongoing maintenance of the other systems becomes more complex as more specialized equipment is needed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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Of course the costs don't go away, but if the stats provided by you and aquateam are correct, an elevated transit line would have lower maintenance costs than a subway tunnel. All of your arguments would apply to the Skytrain as well, yet it costs less to maintain than both underground LRT and subways. To review:
Skytrain (mostly elevated ICTS): $3.7 million/km
Eglinton (at grade and underground LRT): $4.2 million/km
TTC subway: $7 million/km

Again, that's assuming that all those numbers are correct.
 
MisterF said:
Of course the costs don't go away, but if the stats provided by you and aquateam are correct, an elevated transit line would have lower maintenance costs than a subway tunnel. All of your arguments would apply to the Skytrain as well, yet it costs less to maintain than both underground LRT and subways. To review:
Skytrain (mostly elevated ICTS): $3.7 million/km
Eglinton (at grade and underground LRT): $4.2 million/km
TTC subway: $7 million/km

Again, that's assuming that all those numbers are correct.
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I think another deception in the TTC subway stat is the year of construction. If I look at roughly that average age of each set of data.

1990's Skytrain (mostly elevated ICTS): $3.7 million/km for maintenance.
2010's Eglinton (at grade and underground LRT): $4.2 million/km for maintenance.
1960's era TTC subway: $7 million/km for maintenance.

It is quite clear that the SkyTrain number would go down a bit using 2010's construction methods, and the TTC subway number would go down a lot.
 
Reecemartin said:
Been in Montreal all week, hopefully whatever vehicles we have running on the Crosstown have some significant improvements over the current flexity streetcars and rocket subway trains. The new Azur Montreal Metro trains have probably the nicest interior and exterior appearance of ANY metro train I have ever been on and has lots of features that SHOULD be on the Toronto Rockets like useful TV screens displaying the next few stations.
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I actually prefer how Toronto's Rocket Trains will indefinitely use the screens inside to remind me that all three levels of government funded them. I usually get pretty worried about how it ended up on the tracks.
 
BMO said:
I actually prefer how Toronto's Rocket Trains will indefinitely use the screens inside to remind me that all three levels of government funded them. I usually get pretty worried about how it ended up on the tracks.
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So true. The lack of imagination and creativity in this city's institution is truly puzzling at times. Those TV's could be easy advertisement money if they were bigger. :rolleyes:
 
BMO said:
I actually prefer how Toronto's Rocket Trains will indefinitely use the screens inside to remind me that all three levels of government funded them. I usually get pretty worried about how it ended up on the tracks.
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Hey, some of the Rocket screens have very useful information: such as telling us not to litter. I diligently watch those screens on every trip.

Why do you hate the screens? You must support littering. Do you support littering? Hey, everyone, BMO supports littering!
 
Reecemartin said:
Been in Montreal all week, hopefully whatever vehicles we have running on the Crosstown have some significant improvements over the current flexity streetcars and rocket subway trains. The new Azur Montreal Metro trains have probably the nicest interior and exterior appearance of ANY metro train I have ever been on and has lots of features that SHOULD be on the Toronto Rockets like useful TV screens displaying the next few stations.
Click to expand...


WOW, this thing is looooouuuddd!!!
 
Reecemartin said:
Been in Montreal all week, hopefully whatever vehicles we have running on the Crosstown have some significant improvements over the current flexity streetcars and rocket subway trains. The new Azur Montreal Metro trains have probably the nicest interior and exterior appearance of ANY metro train I have ever been on and has lots of features that SHOULD be on the Toronto Rockets like useful TV screens displaying the next few stations.

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Those run of the mill Montreal stations all look nicer than just about anything we have in Toronto.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Those run of the mill Montreal stations all look nicer than just about anything we have in Toronto.
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Montreal has better stations, Toronto has better trains. Even than the new ones in Montreal.

Every friend who I have from Montreal agrees. The new Montreal trains may have nice displays and colours and look slick, but they are skinny and cramped inside, and the ride on the rubber tyres is loud and jostles around.

Not to mention that they don't have Air Conditioning and don't go as fast as the TTC Rocket subway trains. People argue they do, but its the perception of the jostling, they do not have as fast of a max speed, period.

Montreal = nicer stations.

Toronto = nicer trains.
 
robmausser said:
Montreal has better stations, Toronto has better trains. Even than the new ones in Montreal.

Every friend who I have from Montreal agrees. The new Montreal trains may have nice displays and colours and look slick, but they are skinny and cramped inside, and the ride on the rubber tyres is loud and jostles around.

Not to mention that they don't have Air Conditioning and don't go as fast as the TTC Rocket subway trains. People argue they do, but its the perception of the jostling, they do not have as fast of a max speed, period.

Montreal = nicer stations.

Toronto = nicer trains.
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The Montreal Metro trains are the same width as our streetcars. The light rail vehicles for the Crosstown LRT (and Finch West) will be wider than both our streetcars and Montreal Metro trains.
 
BurlOak said:
A quick search suggest the following:
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TTC trains really are very, very wide and spacious. Compare them to the rush-hour situation in Paris or on London’s deep-level lines and it’s really night and day. I know we rightly critcize our forebears for not adequately planning for growth in many respects, but this is one they got right.
 
MPP Yvan Baker sent a notice to his email newsletter subscribers about the November 13th and 15th public consultation meetings with this opinion:

I am concerned about the work that staff have done, the conclusions that they have drawn and how this could impact the design of the LRT in our community.

I will be there to express my concerns and to continue advocating for the tunnelling of the LRT.

It is important that our community’s voice be heard on this important issue. I hope that you will be able to join us on Monday night at Martingrove Collegiate to ask questions and share your input with City of Toronto staff.

The original meeting notification can be found below.
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