WislaHD
Superstar
Yah, I think there is some agreement here. If grade separated is the solution on Eglinton West, then at-grade median throughout the Golden Mile sticks out as a sore thumb.
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
This might be a ploy to allow Tory to campaign on grade separating the intersections. So he can be the valiant definer of cars again. Probably not the case, but I hope so.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Hopkins123
Senior Member
I just wish they'd consolidate Pharmacy and Hakimi Lebovic into a single stop, cut Aga Khan, and just grade-separate the whole damn thing. These public consultations mean absolutely nothing if the planners are just going to recommend whatever they bloody please in spite of what the constituents are actually demanding.
sixrings
Senior Member
In summary...
People say just build something already.
Government shows what they plan to build.
People complain.
Government uses oppertunity to create a divide.
Things get delayed or cancelled.
People say just build something already...
People say just build something already.
Government shows what they plan to build.
People complain.
Government uses oppertunity to create a divide.
Things get delayed or cancelled.
People say just build something already...
OneCity
Senior Member
Making decisions that commuters of all modes could agree upon would only be necessary if there a clear problem that existing in our City politics and it was ripe to see public support to overturn. Oh Wait?
Seriously though my biggest fear now for any current plans, is that they have been clearly designed with enough visible question marks they could be easily canceled for the usual appetite to "improve" and we once again do nothing but further analysis and debate for another decade until we do it all again. Id rather we proceed on all fronts. While this LRT is questionably designed for various reasons from shelters, number of stops, and grade separation, its still far better than building nothing which is also a realistic alternative if they cant keep moving.
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OneCity
Senior Member
Maybe, but you never know what Tory will say or do. He'll certainly have some tricks up his sleeve with his previous ones fizzling out. Unfortunately the only guarantee is this grade separation honor will go to Doug... So how badly do you want it?
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Sandpit
Active Member
From what I've heard, Hakimi Lebovic is supposed to serve developments south of Eglinton, including the Eglinton bus garage. Cutting it would mean an unacceptably long walk to reach these destinations. Cutting Aga Khan is politically sensitive and could be seen as a snub to the Aga Khan/Ismaili community.
crs1026
Superstar
I'm not as fussed about Royal York or Scarlett. But I certainly am about Islington, Kipling and Martin Grove.
As noted, Islington-Eglinton happens in a dip. It would not be a huge issue to just keep the LRT at the higher level, a short bit of elevated line.
Even if left at grade, those footbridges might not be a bad idea.
I think the stop structures on Eglinton East ought to be improved as well, but even if not, why commit the second wrong and get them wrong in the west.
- Paul
As noted, Islington-Eglinton happens in a dip. It would not be a huge issue to just keep the LRT at the higher level, a short bit of elevated line.
Even if left at grade, those footbridges might not be a bad idea.
I think the stop structures on Eglinton East ought to be improved as well, but even if not, why commit the second wrong and get them wrong in the west.
- Paul
robmausser
Senior Member
Some of the Cons against the grade separation in this list are ridiculous. Like that it will cause construction. Yeah... thats what building stuff properly does!
Meanwhile, Montreal is pitching this station
We've got a bunch of floozies in city hall who are still David Miller Transit City obsessed and care more about cost cutting and street beautification than proper transit.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
How quickly they forget. From September of 2016 at this link:
Grade separation at Eglinton & Martin Grove for the LRT would help with traffic flow (caused by the single-occupant automobiles) by keeping the light rail vehicles away from the main cause.
City of Toronto makes changes at 10 'hotspot' intersections to improve traffic flow and safety
As part of the second phase of its congestion management plan, the City of Toronto is making changes to 10 congested intersections or "hotspots" as part of a strategy to improve the overall flow of traffic at these locations. Mayor Tory made the announcement this morning at one of the hotspots, Finch Avenue East and Victoria Park Avenue.
"The number one priority for Toronto residents is their ability to move around this city quickly and safely. We’re taking action to keep Toronto moving by targeting some of our most congested intersections in the city," said Mayor John Tory. "Targeting these intersections with common sense solutions is a low-cost, high-impact initiative to get people moving while ensuring public safety."
Transportation Services used third-party traffic data to identify these 10 congestion hotspots, measuring the traffic speed during the morning or afternoon peak period against free-flow conditions.
The following intersections were identified as congestion hotspots:
• Eglinton Avenue West and Martin Grove Road (Wards 3 and 4)
• Lawrence Avenue West and Black Creek Drive (Ward 12)
• St. Clair Avenue East and Mount Pleasant Avenue (Ward 22 and 27)
• Finch Avenue and Yonge Street (Wards 23 and 24)
• Sheppard Avenue and Yonge Street (Ward 23)
• Bloor Street East and Parliament Avenue (Ward 27 and 28)
• O'Connor Drive and Don Mills Road (Ward 29)
• Eastern Avenue and Carlaw Avenue (Ward 30)
• Finch Avenue East and Victoria Park Avenue (Wards 33, 39 and 40)
• Kingston Road and Lawrence Avenue East (Ward 43)
The City has studied these intersections to identify potential measures to reduce delays for road users and to improve safety, including:
• traffic signal retiming for peak periods
• turn restrictions
• left-turn advance green
• increasing length of green time
• installing a closed-circuit television (CCTV) camera.
More information about the measures being implemented and/or planned for each intersection is available at ow.ly/fXZL304zpcf.
As part of the second phase of its congestion management plan, the City of Toronto is making changes to 10 congested intersections or "hotspots" as part of a strategy to improve the overall flow of traffic at these locations. Mayor Tory made the announcement this morning at one of the hotspots, Finch Avenue East and Victoria Park Avenue.
"The number one priority for Toronto residents is their ability to move around this city quickly and safely. We’re taking action to keep Toronto moving by targeting some of our most congested intersections in the city," said Mayor John Tory. "Targeting these intersections with common sense solutions is a low-cost, high-impact initiative to get people moving while ensuring public safety."
Transportation Services used third-party traffic data to identify these 10 congestion hotspots, measuring the traffic speed during the morning or afternoon peak period against free-flow conditions.
The following intersections were identified as congestion hotspots:
• Eglinton Avenue West and Martin Grove Road (Wards 3 and 4)
• Lawrence Avenue West and Black Creek Drive (Ward 12)
• St. Clair Avenue East and Mount Pleasant Avenue (Ward 22 and 27)
• Finch Avenue and Yonge Street (Wards 23 and 24)
• Sheppard Avenue and Yonge Street (Ward 23)
• Bloor Street East and Parliament Avenue (Ward 27 and 28)
• O'Connor Drive and Don Mills Road (Ward 29)
• Eastern Avenue and Carlaw Avenue (Ward 30)
• Finch Avenue East and Victoria Park Avenue (Wards 33, 39 and 40)
• Kingston Road and Lawrence Avenue East (Ward 43)
The City has studied these intersections to identify potential measures to reduce delays for road users and to improve safety, including:
• traffic signal retiming for peak periods
• turn restrictions
• left-turn advance green
• increasing length of green time
• installing a closed-circuit television (CCTV) camera.
More information about the measures being implemented and/or planned for each intersection is available at ow.ly/fXZL304zpcf.
robmausser
Senior Member
Another thing to note, why aren't they looking at lowering the road under the grade separations, as well as elevating the track?
You'd think that would be a no brainer.
Rather than raise the LRT 20 feet, you lower the road and intersection 10 feet and raise the LRT 10 feet.
Like whats done with rail underpasses.
Someone please bring that up in the next meeting.
You'd think that would be a no brainer.
Rather than raise the LRT 20 feet, you lower the road and intersection 10 feet and raise the LRT 10 feet.
Like whats done with rail underpasses.
Someone please bring that up in the next meeting.
aquateam
Active Member
These reports are better than porn for transit nerds.
From reading these, my fantasy set of grade separations are:
Jane: elevated, north side
Scarlett road: elevated, north side
Royal york: elevated, centre of road but shift to north side for station (not considered)
Islington: elevated and north side with some mitigation measure for the visual obstruction, ideally expropriating the properties and re-developing them. If that can't be done then centre station.
This is the intersection in question so I don't think space constrains are insurmountable:
Kipling avenue:
North side, elevated:
Martin grove:
This is the most difficult to design for: elevated is listed as not an option because of the hydro corridor to the west, which makes sense. But this is also the intersection that has the most value in grade separating. At the same time, there is a gas line (running east/west?) that restricts underground options on the south and the reservoir on the north.
Centre, underground might be worth it, and it would avoid having to reconfigure a bunch of highway ramps. But I feel like there must be unexplored options (lowering the road, etc.) for this stop that would avoid having to bury it.
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Hopkins123
Senior Member
I'm not suggesting to cut Hakimi Lebovic altogether. I'm saying instead of having two stops within 500 metres of each other largely serving the same catchment of riders, why not situate a bona fide station east of Pharmacy and west of Lebovic in the midblock trenched or elevated, like this?...
And as for Aga Khan, it will still be quite a walking distance uphill from where the LRT stop is going to be situated. How is direct bus service along Wynford Dr not a better way to serve the regulars that'll actually need such a stop? Remember too that Science Centre Station's station box will be on the east side of the Don Mills/Eglinton intersection. To have another station so closeby is ridiculous when we have far bigger fish to fry.
robmausser
Senior Member
Yes, lowering or raising the road should be looked into.
Rather than a 5% grade for the LRT, make a 2.5% grade for LRT and for cars.