[Midtown Urbanist]

They do that at rush hour already. And the demand is so low that they only way that they can justify the route is to make it a Premium Express.

I've addressed that in the other post:

If I lived right at Mt. Pleasant, I would consider that express route service too. The issue is that anyone who has to walk >5 minutes to the bus stop is playing the odds considering the express route only makes three trips a morning. Not to mention that it does not run on the weekends, the time of the week such a service would be most useful considering the weekly subway closures on weekends. Plus, during the winter time any significant amount of waiting for an incredibly infrequent service is frustrating.

Long story short, we have a direct corridor to downtown via Mt. Pleasant and Jarvis, and the current service(s) on that corridor has been designed to be as prohibitive as possible for anyone to use. Goes to the wrong place, is split into two routes, very infrequent, and the express service is one of the few TTC routes in the whole city that has an additional premium price.

Currently, the 74 Mt Pleasant and 103 Mt Pleasant North have 1,200 and 1,600 daily riders respectively, and the 141 Mt Pleasant Express has a mere 160 daily riders. I think there is significant latent demand on the corridor (and more people switching from car to transit with the opening of the Eglinton Crosstown) and the present low ridership of these three bus lines are because these bus routes were never really an option for getting anywhere in the first place.

I really think it is difficult to judge a route as unviable on the fact that nobody uses a premium cost service that runs 3 times a morning.

Provide a truly viable option, and then observe if it attracts significant ridership.

 

[dowlingm]

I remain befuddled by TTC's planning process where the 14x routes must remain limited premium service irrespective of developments along their routes whereas other non-premium express services can pop up elsewhere in the city. Mount Pleasant and Jarvis are relatively high speed corridors and if there can't be bike lanes on Jarvis then there should be transit access. But that is perhaps a matter for another thread.

 

[smallspy]

I've addressed that in the other post:



I really think it is difficult to judge a route as unviable on the fact that nobody uses a premium cost service that runs 3 times a morning.

Provide a truly viable option, and then observe if it attracts significant ridership.

Except that you seem to have forgotten the history of the route.

It (and the matching Avenue Rd. service) was started in the late 1980s as a means of addressing the overcrowding that was then happening on the Yonge Line at rush hours. They weren't originally an extra fare route - that was only done when funding started to get cut in 1992.

And yes, while both routes are still running today, the TTC gnashes its teeth every couple of years about whether they are actually a worthwhile investment to maintain in the network. The general consensus is a pretty resounding "no", but enough people complain about the potential demise that the TTC keeps putting it off.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[smallspy]

Duplicate post. My apologies.

 

[smallspy]

Duplicate post. My apologies.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Didn't the TTC recently announce that they were going to phase out the double fare routes in the next few years?

 

[Voltz]

Didn't the TTC recently announce that they were going to phase out the double fare routes in the next few years?

I don't know about recently, but I think I head it mentioned a few years ago, guess it was abandoned in the budget process.

 

[christiesplits]

Quick question:

Let's say the Eglinton West subway was not scrapped in the 90s. How do you think rapid transit on this corridor would have transpired? Would there be LRT 'book ends' west of Mount Dennis and East of Eglinton West station? A strong push for subway along the entire corridor? A mix of the subway, LRT and regular bus service?

 

[Amare]

Quick question:

Let's say the Eglinton West subway was not scrapped in the 90s. How do you think rapid transit on this corridor would have transpired? Would there be LRT 'book ends' west of Mount Dennis and East of Eglinton West station? A strong push for subway along the entire corridor? A mix of the subway, LRT and regular bus service?

We would've had the same situation that we did with Sheppard, another LRT/BRT vs subway debate which would have been much more heated. BRT most likely would have been the debate subject for the west end, while subway would have been the subject for the east end of Eglinton West.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Quick question:

Let's say the Eglinton West subway was not scrapped in the 90s. How do you think rapid transit on this corridor would have transpired? Would there be LRT 'book ends' west of Mount Dennis and East of Eglinton West station? A strong push for subway along the entire corridor? A mix of the subway, LRT and regular bus service?

I think there would have been less opposition to expansion of the subway on Eglinton.

We would have been extending the subway eastward to Don Mills during the mid to late 00s.

So maybe, Pearson to Don Mills, with Scarborough making noise about how we stopped the Eglinton subway short of Victoria Park and Scarborough because they are second class citizens or something.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I think there would have been less opposition to expansion of the subway on Eglinton.

We would have been extending the subway eastward to Don Mills during the mid to late 00s.

So maybe, Pearson to Don Mills, with Scarborough making noise about how we stopped the Eglinton subway short of Victoria Park and Scarborough because they are second class citizens or something.

Wow, 2 subway lines that stop just outside of Scarborough. I would be infuriated.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Quick question:

Let's say the Eglinton West subway was not scrapped in the 90s. How do you think rapid transit on this corridor would have transpired? Would there be LRT 'book ends' west of Mount Dennis and East of Eglinton West station? A strong push for subway along the entire corridor? A mix of the subway, LRT and regular bus service?

The initial phase of the Eglinton West Line would have terminated at Mt Dennis. The ridership on this line would have been extraordinarily low, which would have been detrimental to any advocacy for expansion.

A western expansion could've been built as subway, LRT or BRT. AM peak hour ridership eastbound into Eglinton West-Allen Station was expected to be 7,700 pphpd for the Crosstown LRT, which is rather tepid for a subway line (I expect the Eglinton West Subway would have similar demand). The debate would have been rather similar to the Sheppard East subway extension debate, with some using the low ridership of the subway to push for LRT or BRT, and others pushing for a subway extension regardless of ridership. At the end, I anticipate that it would have been extended west as a surface subway line to Kipling or Martin Grove.

The situation with an eastern extension would be quite a bit more complicated. I suppose it would have probably played out one of two ways:

1. A proposal to extend the subway underground east to either Yonge or Don Mills. The ridership potential of both of these proposals would be low due to the abrupt termination of the line, making advocacy for this extension more challenging
2. A proposal to extended the subway east to Kennedy. Ridership would be very high, but so would the costs. Yonge Line crowding would be getting critical, potentially making any eastern extension of the Eglinton subway not feasible. And even if the extension were still technically possible, it would have to compete with the DRL and SRT replacement for funding. The DRL and SRT replacement are both far more critical projects, through a purely objective analysis

Neither of these options are particularly palatable, so I'd say that it's most probable that the Eglinton West subway would not have been extended east of Allen to the date. An extension west to Kipling/Martin Grove would've been the only extension for quite some time. Perhaps the matter would be revisited after the completion of the DRL to Eglinton.

 

[Neutrino]

View attachment 131517Perhaps the matter would be revisited after the completion of the DRL to Eglinton.

Thank god we didn't build it, then. DRL to Eglinton likely won't be complete for twenty years.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Unless it were subway from Pearson to Don Mills where it could connect with the SRT there that continues alongside Eglinton.

And that transfer would improve when a DRL also connects there to provide a downtown option.

 

[hw621]

Unless it were subway from Pearson to Don Mills where it could connect with the SRT there that continues alongside Eglinton.

And that transfer would improve when a DRL also connects there to provide a downtown option.

Not even in my wildest dream...