[crs1026]

Doesn't Metrolinx have over 5,000 employees? It's not exactly small.

Any Metrolinx takeover the TTC is going to be a technical reorganization anyway with most TTC staff simply becoming Metrolinx staff.

Not that simple, and it's not about headcount.

First there is an organization redesign - one doesn't just have the two organizations report to a single CEO

Then there has to be a job description writing exercise, and a salary rating exercise.

Then people have to be placed in the new jobs, and issues of unplaced staff figured out (um, pink slips). Union jurisdictions have to be sorted out.

Then all the information systems have to be integrated and data reconciled.

Meanwhile all the operating policies and practices have to be reconciled and integrated.

The new teams have to familiarise themselves with all the interfaces, department authorities, reporting and notification requirements, and regulatory interfaces and processes. And budgets.

Try two years of not focusing on the customer or the ongoing projects.

- Paul

 

[cplchanb]

Shocking, it feels like a few weeks ago folks seemed hopeful for a potential Q1 opening and now October is coming up in discussions (as an extreme of course but still crazy)

I guess they were referring to Q1... 2026

 

[smallspy]

That headcount, to my understanding, would include all of Alstom's staff (train crews and maintenance), as well as third-party consultants at HQ.

The direct workforce is much smaller.

For comparison, the TTC has ~17,000 direct employees.

There's also the minor matter of ridership.

~60mil annually for GO compared to almost 400mil for the TTC.

How many years did the Toronto Viaduct take after it was approved in 1913? And then there's the construction of Union Station for which the corporate arrangements were sorted out in 1906, and construction delayed until 1914 but didn't open until 1927 (despite having everything but the trainshed open in 1920) - mostly caused by delays in the Toronto Viaduct (and of course the GTR bankruptcy). Even then, the trainshed construction continued until 1930.

Or that it took the City 80 years to finally straighten Dufferin? Or the eyesore that was the Stump? Or the Bayview Ghost?

There is a whole lot of recency bias going on in here....

Dan

 

[T3G]

How many years did the Toronto Viaduct take after it was approved in 1913? And then there's the construction of Union Station for which the corporate arrangements were sorted out in 1906, and construction delayed until 1914 but didn't open until 1927 (despite having everything but the trainshed open in 1920) - mostly caused by delays in the Toronto Viaduct (and of course the GTR bankruptcy). Even then, the trainshed construction continued until 1930.

I agree with all of this but ... which Toronto Viaduct? Not the Prince Edward? That only took 5 years to build after being approved ... not a staggeringly short time frame, but it doesn't seem like THAT long. The Brooklyn Bridge took 13 to build, the Manhattan Bridge 8, the Williamsburg Bridge 7... seems like 5 years is a pretty good time frame, all considering!

 

[jcam]

In a word 'No'.......

I would agree with @crs1026 above........but would add..........

Mx despite its a massive budget and influence is actually a very small organization.

Head office wise, they fit in Union Station.......and only a small portion thereof........

IF they 'took over' the TTC...........the reality would be the TTC taking over them............

The latter organization is infinitely larger, far more senior management, far more middle management, far more technical expertise in house (yes, some of it not as good as one would hope, but :I digress)...........

Mx is a spec of dust to the TTC. I don't mean that in a silly way, but just a comparator of scale and size......

****

Organizational issues aside............ the province wants no part of the politics of running local bus services..........

They also have a very large footprint down at 10 and 20 Bay.

 

[nfitz]

I agree with all of this but ... which Toronto Viaduct? Not the Prince Edward?

The one along the Lakeshore line (Kingston sub) from Union Station to about Pape. That used to be at grade with level crossings. That was a lot of fill.

 

[smallspy]

They also have a very large footprint down at 10 and 20 Bay.

And 130 York.

Dan

 

[stevedean]

How many years did the Toronto Viaduct take after it was approved in 1913? And then there's the construction of Union Station for which the corporate arrangements were sorted out in 1906, and construction delayed until 1914 but didn't open until 1927 (despite having everything but the trainshed open in 1920) - mostly caused by delays in the Toronto Viaduct (and of course the GTR bankruptcy). Even then, the trainshed construction continued until 1930.

So you're saying that Toronto has a history of poorly managed projects? Great news!!!

 

[rbt]

So you're saying that Toronto has a history of poorly managed projects? Great news!!!

Sometimes it's worked out for the best. There were a few delayed then stalled then cancelled highway projects I'm glad never went through. The first attempt at the Donlands/Portlands redevelopment didn't look very good either.

Also not disappointed we still have streetcars; another project delayed long enough the TTC got so tired of fixing their temporary tracks (short life-span tracks because streetcars were dead) and started building 50 year tracks again. Toronto had the same plans as every other city with streetcars and similar levels of opposition to those plans, we just didn't get around to it.

 

[bearcat]

the first attempt at the Donlands/Portlands redevelopment didn't look very good either

sorry this is off topic but I am curious which attempt or plan you mean? I don't know much about the history here

 

[felix123]

Also not disappointed we still have streetcars; another project delayed long enough the TTC got so tired of fixing their temporary tracks (short life-span tracks because streetcars were dead) and started building 50 year tracks again. Toronto had the same plans as every other city with streetcars and similar levels of opposition to those plans, we just didn't get around to it.

If there's ever been a good version of conservatism, then this must be it.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

sorry this is off topic but I am curious which attempt or plan you mean? I don't know much about the history here

He may be referring to Sidewalk Toronto, there’s good primer on Wikipedia and great book on the topic here.

 

[smallspy]

He may be referring to Sidewalk Toronto, there’s good primer on Wikipedia and great book on the topic here.

I suspect that he is actually referencing the failed Ataratiri project of the mid-1980s.

Dan

 

[reinventingthewheel]

I suspect that he is actually referencing the failed Ataratiri project of the mid-1980s.

Dan

Before my time, thanks for the historical reference.

 

[egotrippin]

Some more info on Ataratiri in the link below (after the Regent Park piece), including illustrations:

https://www.toronto.ca/explore-enjo...-visions-for-toronto/no-little-plans-housing/