[afransen]

I'm only responding to your point about being happy with the LRT. It's worth remembering that this was a planning failure and learning lessons for future projects. Unfortunately after this year I think our ability to have bonfires of public money will be rather curtailed.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'm only responding to your point about being happy with the LRT. It's worth remembering that this was a planning failure and learning lessons for future projects. Unfortunately after this year I think our ability to have bonfires of public money will be rather curtailed.

And paying for something that is absolutely not needed for nothing but political expediency will meant some other real need won't be met.

AoD

 

[kamira51]

And paying for something that is absolutely not needed for nothing but political expediency will meant some other real need won't be met.

AoD

You do know that this extension was supposed to be built with the crosstown from the get-go right?

When this was cut from the crosstown they named this extention phase 2, phase 1 being black creek to Kenedy.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

You do know that this extension was supposed to be built with the crosstown from the get-go right?

When this was cut from the crosstown they named this extention phase 2, phase 1 being black creek to Kenedy.

So? What does it have to do with the issue at hand - i.e. inappropriate use of highest cost methodologies for political expediency? Do you want to argue this stretch is the greatest transit priority in the city region, should you be tempted to run with the "but it's been delayed for so long, that doing the wrong thing should be justifiable" argument.

AoD

 

[kamira51]

So? What does it have to do with the issue at hand - i.e. inappropriate use of highest cost methodologies for political expediency? Do you want to argue this stretch is the greatest transit priority in the city region, should you be tempted to run with the "but it's been delayed for so long" argument.

AoD

Listen man, I get it, you find this a waste of money, but you need to realize that this is transit that is going to get built after x amount of transit plans that ended up being scrappedn, its nice to see the government step up and get transit built.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Listen man, I get it, you find this a waste of money, but you need to realize that this is transit that is going to get built after x amount of transit plans that ended up being scrappedn, its nice to see the government step up and get transit built.

You mean by the same folks who whipped up opposition to the transit plans made by others - however imperfect they are - and scrapped a good number of them (while paying for cancellation costs)? It's kind of rich.

AoD

 

[toronto647]

You mean by the same folks who whipped up opposition to the transit plans made by others - however imperfect they are - and scrapped a good number of them (while paying for cancellation costs)? It's kind of rich.

AoD

AOD no offence... whether you like it or not EGWLRT is going to be built underground no matter what. The sooner we all realize the better. Yes money digging it underground can be spent in better ways but I rather have the government waste an extra billion(s) in this than other wasteful projects like the power plant debacle which costed a billion for nothing.

Let us start looking at the cup half full or else we could sit here critiquing for years. Finally transit is being built. This should be celebrated and rejoiced.

 

[toronto647]

You mean by the same folks who whipped up opposition to the transit plans made by others - however imperfect they are - and scrapped a good number of them (while paying for cancellation costs)? It's kind of rich.

AoD

There is no sense in crying over spilt milk. Why bewail what is done and cannot be recalled? AoD, If we keep looking backwards we can't move forward.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

There is no sense in crying over spilt milk. Why bewail what is done and cannot be recalled? AoD, If we keep looking backwards we can't move forward.

Spare me, you are literally the one who brought up the gas plant in this very same thread (by the way, the current government had ripped up a fair number of contracts with penalties - I am sure you can find articles regarding those) - clearly you are in no mood to learn THAT lesson. You can't move forward with good transit planning if you don't recognize this is the epitome of what it isn't - and the next time you bemoan government waste, poor government decision-making or pork-barrelling, I will be sure to remind you of it.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

AOD no offence... whether you like it or not EGWLRT is going to be built underground no matter what. The sooner we all realize the better. Yes money digging it underground can be spent in better ways but I rather have the government waste an extra billion(s) in this than other wasteful projects like the power plant debacle which costed a billion for nothing.

Let us start looking at the cup half full or else we could sit here critiquing for years. Finally transit is being built. This should be celebrated and rejoiced.

Stop here.

The tender hasn't been awarded yet.

Even if it had been, it can be ripped up by a subsequent government.

See the government of Mike Harris filling in a partially dug subway tunnel on Eglinton West.

Its absolutely fair to discuss whether the current plan is the best one; or whether it will be delivered.

As it is equally fair to point out that previously plans were also beset by cancellations, delays and alterations.

But it is not fair to suggest that current plans are any more real than those that were cancelled, when there is no shovel in the ground, let alone a completed project.

 

[toronto647]

Spare me, you are literally the one who brought up the gas plant in this very same thread (by the way, the current government had ripped up a fair number of contracts with penalties - I am sure you can find articles regarding those) - clearly you are in no mood to learn THAT lesson. You can't move forward with good transit planning if you don't recognize this is the epitome of what it isn't - and the next time you bemoan government waste, poor government decision-making or pork-barrelling, I will be sure to remind you of it.

AoD

I am a liberal for the record and just used the $1 billion for an example stating I rather money be wasted for an underground transit than into cancelling contracts which Conservatives have done as well a number of times. Unfortunately, we don't live in a utopian society if we did we would have perfect transit. EGWLRT is the best proposal we got on the table right now. (Unless we wait another 4-5 years for another government to possibly come in)

Would you support an underground EGWLRT or no EGWLRT at all? One or the other and no deviations. (pretty sure everyone the forum knows the answer)

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I am a liberal for the record and just used the $1 billion for an example stating I rather money be wasted for an underground transit than into cancelling contracts which Conservatives have done as well a number of times. Unfortunately, we don't live in a utopian society if we did we would have perfect transit. EGWLRT is the best proposal we got on the table right now. (Unless we wait another 4-5 years for another government to possibly come in)

Would you support an underground EGWLRT or no EGWLRT at all? One or the other and no deviations. (pretty sure everyone the forum knows the answer)

That's a false dichotomy - a poisoned chalice I wouldn't drink from to retain a shred of self-respect and consistency. So the answer is no, I won't support an underground EGWLRT, at the cost of not having one.

AoD

 

[toronto647]

That's a false dichotomy - a poisoned chalice I wouldn't drink from to retain a shred of self-respect and consistency. So the answer is no, I won't support an underground EGWLRT, at the cost of not having one.

AoD

And that is the reason why transit infrastructure creation takes decades in Toronto. Parties will never agree on one solution and will pass the buck to the next government and the chain continues. If Ford doesn't unilaterally push forward EGWLRT/SSE/OL(RLS/N) then we potentially won't see anything completed till at least 2040 (20 years from now). I rather overpay than not pay and have nothing. In 20 years the city will be even more populated and they will literally need to shut down yonge/bloor station if some sort of relief isn't built. mark my words.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And that is the reason why transit infrastructure creation takes decades in Toronto. Parties will never agree on one solution and will pass the buck to the next government and the chain continues. If Ford doesn't unilaterally push forward EGWLRT/SSE/OL(RLS/N) then we potentially won't see anything completed till at least 2040 (20 years from now). I rather overpay than not pay and have nothing. In 20 years the city will be even more populated and they will literally need to shut down yonge/bloor station if some sort of relief isn't built. mark my words.

I have no problem with supporting OL even though I have misgivings about sizing of the build (precisely because the government is not willing to overpay); but this? There is no real urgency to it, and worst, there is absolutely no reason why an elevated line cannot be fast tracked once the decision is made. Don't let time be an excuse for expediency.

AoD

 

[toronto647]

I have no problem with supporting OL even though I have misgivings about sizing of the build (precisely because the government is not willing to overpay); but this? There is no real urgency to it, and worst, there is absolutely no reason why an elevated line cannot be fast tracked once the decision is made. Don't let time be an excuse for expediency.

AoD

I agree with your point in regards to time and rushing projects however just knowing our political landscape I rather get shovels in the ground now and take what we can get. In any case I guess time will tell what happens with these projects. Great debate enjoyed it.