[fanoftoronto]

I mean sure but, the line literally connects to the Mississauga Transitway? Like sure, the line might not directly serve a significant part of Mississauga, but it will be used a lot by Mississaugans, similarly to how the Yonge Line (and particularly Finch Station) is heavily used by York Regionites. So, hyping up an extension that will connect the Toronto Subway to Mississauga's RT network to Mississaugans makes perfect sense.

I have no qualms about hyping up the line! But it's slippery slope to call the Eglinton West Extension as a major Mississauga LRT line, when actually it is a major Toronto LRT line that services and benefits Mississauga.

To your point, no one would call Yonge line (prior to the extension) or Finch station a major City of York transit line/station.

 

[ARG1]

To your point, no one would call Yonge line (prior to the extension) or Finch station a major City of York transit line/station.

Maybe not when it was built in the 70s when YR was basically just Farmville, but if the Finch extension was built today I probably would be hyping it up in local YR newspaper as an important and relevant YR project.

 

[nfitz]

Why not?

In its current state its hard to justify using the transitway when it doesn't get you anywhere.

I'm sure ridership will increase. But there are so few destinations. And a complete lack of TOCs appearing along Eglinton. Is there really any significant destinations before Mount Dennis, where some will change to downtown or Bloor. What are the travel times like? How does it compare to having buses arriving at Renforth and then running express to Kipling.

Recall how pathetic the demand numbers were west of Jane, in the modelling for the EA.

But it should get you to midtown in 25 minutes though (Renforth to Yonge / Eglinton) and that’s competitive with driving.

If they were building TOCs along Eastgate, I could see it. But even the nodes that are there, aren't great walks to the station.[/QUOTE]

 

[turbanplanner]

I'm sure ridership will increase. But there are so few destinations. And a complete lack of TOCs appearing along Eglinton. Is there really any significant destinations before Mount Dennis, where some will change to downtown or Bloor. What are the travel times like? How does it compare to having buses arriving at Renforth and then running express to Kipling.

Recall how pathetic the demand numbers were west of Jane, in the modelling for the EA.

If they were building TOCs along Eastgate, I could see it. But even the nodes that are there, aren't great walks to the station.

Are there ANY TOC's in Canada that aren't dogshit? This one sandwiched between a walmart parking lot and burlington go come to mind.
There are actually some Condos on King street in Toronto that have space for retail but there has not been a single tenant since they opened over a decade ago.

 

[drum118]

Are there ANY TOC's in Canada that aren't dogshit? This one sandwiched between a walmart parking lot and burlington go come to mind.
There are actually some Condos on King street in Toronto that have space for retail but there has not been a single tenant since they opened over a decade ago.

View attachment 564192

I know this site very well as I follow it from the day it was proposed until it was built monthly when I attended a meeting in the city and up to 6 year ago. I was doing the meeting before Walmart got built.

That site was to have 5 towers and no demand to build the rest of them. Both Walmart and this site was farm land. There is another site on the other side of the GO Station that close their doors years ago and would be a good site for another development.

There are a fair number of developments in Toronto were the retail area is still empty 10+ years after residents moved in. Even driving along a lot of streets in the GTA, you will find retail has disappear from a lot of retail space that used to exist there at one time and are now sitting empty.

Retail can't not exist at the base of every development when there isn't a market for them in the first place as well going out of business after a short period due too many fight for that $1.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

Are there ANY TOC's in Canada that aren't dogshit? This one sandwiched between a walmart parking lot and burlington go come to mind.
There are actually some Condos on King street in Toronto that have space for retail but there has not been a single tenant since they opened over a decade ago.

View attachment 564192

This one certainly does not qualify as a TOC with the parking provisions. It is zoned as follows with no exemptions currently for the remaining two towers:

• 1 spot per unit
• ~1 visitor spot per 5 units
• 3 spots per 100m2 office
• 5 spots per 100m2 retail

It assumes everyone drives, which of course is true. You may live here without a car but you’ll be significantly disadvantaged and only recuperate ~$100 a month renting out your parking spot.

 

[drum118]

This one certainly does not qualify as a TOC with the parking provisions. It is zoned as follows with no exemptions currently for the remaining two towers:

• 1 spot per unit
• ~1 visitor spot per 5 units
• 3 spots per 100m2 office
• 5 spots per 100m2 retail

It assumes everyone drives, which of course is true. You may live here without a car but you’ll be significantly disadvantaged and only recuperate ~$100 a month renting out your parking spot.

Not a short walk to ether plaza, IKEA or a grocery store other than Walmart. Buses run 20-30 minutes. Bus service to the big box requires you to go to the north bus terminal the last I knew and no idea of the quality of service these days. Not a real transit city to get around in.

Can not see retail in that block

Eglinton will be hard press to have retail in every block for the extension since it more residential in the first place

 

[innsertnamehere]

bus service on Fairview in Burlington is actually surprisingly good, with frequencies at every 10 minutes in rush hour and every 12 minutes off peak.

 

[junctionist]

It's better to have empty retail than no space at all in my opinion. The demand can always materialize in the future with added density and as transportation patterns change towards transit-centric models. Also, commercial landlords can often find tenants if they lower their rents.

We have hundreds of apartment towers more than a half century old like these ones without space for retail. The landlords don't seem to have interest in reconstructing their ground floors to accommodate it, even though the tenants often want retail and would benefit from it.

 

[turbanplanner]

I know this site very well as I follow it from the day it was proposed until it was built monthly when I attended a meeting in the city and up to 6 year ago. I was doing the meeting before Walmart got built.

That site was to have 5 towers and no demand to build the rest of them. Both Walmart and this site was farm land. There is another site on the other side of the GO Station that close their doors years ago and would be a good site for another development.

There are a fair number of developments in Toronto were the retail area is still empty 10+ years after residents moved in. Even driving along a lot of streets in the GTA, you will find retail has disappear from a lot of retail space that used to exist there at one time and are now sitting empty.

Retail can't not exist at the base of every development when there isn't a market for them in the first place as well going out of business after a short period due too many fight for that $1.

It sucks because ideally along side retail AND entertainment there's hopefully some sort of employment in the area (that would pay enough to pay a mortgage)

 

[crs1026]

It's better to have empty retail than no space at all in my opinion. The demand can always materialize in the future with added density and as transportation patterns change towards transit-centric models. Also, commercial landlords can often find tenants if they lower their rents.

We have hundreds of apartment towers more than a half century old like these ones without space for retail. The landlords don't seem to have interest in reconstructing their ground floors to accommodate it, even though the tenants often want retail and would benefit from it.

The biggest planning mistake in Toronto imho is allowing builders to eliminate or dispense with the small scale street level retail and commercial streetfronts - in favour of "amenity space" or bigger-box retail paying for more square feet at a higher rent per sq ft..

Just wait until the condo builders attack Bloor West Village or the Danforth. Instead of 6-8 small retail or commercial storefronts in a block, there will be only a Shoppers and a Freshco. (Not that I mind either, but the small cafes and businesses will be gone). And a condo lobby or fitness facility. It is already happening on Yonge in a big way.

- Paul

 

[ProjectEnd]

Are there ANY TOC's in Canada that aren't dogshit? This one sandwiched between a walmart parking lot and burlington go come to mind.
There are actually some Condos on King street in Toronto that have space for retail but there has not been a single tenant since they opened over a decade ago.

View attachment 564192

I agree with @junctionist that providing the space is better than not, but would you open a store here? I sure wouldn't.

 

[ProjectEnd]

The biggest planning mistake in Toronto imho is allowing builders to eliminate or dispense with the small scale street level retail and commercial streetfronts - in favour of "amenity space" or bigger-box retail paying for more square feet at a higher rent per sq ft..

Just wait until the condo builders attack Bloor West Village or the Danforth. Instead of 6-8 small retail or commercial storefronts in a block, there will be only a Shoppers and a Freshco. (Not that I mind either, but the small cafes and businesses will be gone). And a condo lobby or fitness facility. It is already happening on Yonge in a big way.

- Paul

This is currently being debated in the Motto thread:

It's not about "learning", it's about what makes the most money within the applicable rules. The City chooses not to govern retail bay width, and since larger spaces generally lease to big, corporate, businesses, that's what developers go for. I'm putting this more in the City's court than private industry. If we were forced to create smaller, narrower, retail units we would. We're not, so we don't. Just more of Planning's myopic focus on things that don't matter (height, setbacks, shadows, etc.) and not giving a lick about the things that do (ground floor experience, unit sizes, elevator ratios, etc.).

You should check in, Paul!

Motto | 47.85m | 13s | Sierra | RAW Design

The database has been updated to reflect the Minor Variance posted above: The changes are as follows: Storey count increased from 11 to 13-storeys Height increased from 38.25m to 44.85m Total units increased from 97 to 107 Total vehicular parking decreased from 43 to 42 Axonometric...

urbantoronto.ca

 

[drum118]

The biggest planning mistake in Toronto imho is allowing builders to eliminate or dispense with the small scale street level retail and commercial streetfronts - in favour of "amenity space" or bigger-box retail paying for more square feet at a higher rent per sq ft..

Just wait until the condo builders attack Bloor West Village or the Danforth. Instead of 6-8 small retail or commercial storefronts in a block, there will be only a Shoppers and a Freshco. (Not that I mind either, but the small cafes and businesses will be gone). And a condo lobby or fitness facility. It is already happening on Yonge in a big way.

- Paul

There has been a lot of development where retail are small units and still sit empty, A number of developments, retail is gear for large units with some being built for a clint right from the start. Have seen some developments with small units only to see one large retailer taking all the units.

As I noted, small retail store on King, Queen, Dundas as well Eglinton have disappear due to lack of market or the rent is too high. A good number of them sit empty today as well for a number of years.

Retail today is a lot different than it was 10-20 years ago as well 50 years ago. Location, Location is the name of the game to staying business 10-40 years down the road.

 

[turbanplanner]

Look at the condo at king and tecumseth, a huge retail unit has been empt for over a decade