[drum118]

That's not a completely new line. When did Sheppard operations start - though that's more of a spur in many ways. When did the SRT trial running start?

Sheppard open on Friday November 22, 2002.

The SRT open Sunday March 24, 1985

Regardless part of the Spadina line was in service years before the extension, would be no different if the Crosstown open on a Sunday. TTC had staff and management on hand that Sunday as I rodded the extension for the first time that day. Andy was around as well Miller.

 

[crs1026]

Having a board period start on a Sunday does not equate to every driver starting their shift at 07:30 on Sunday morning. It merely marks when new assignments begin…. In theory, that assignment for a single operator might be Tuesday thru Saturday.

I think we are at a point of diminishing returns in this discussion. The big picture is, things have moved past the stage where finishing touches and/or correction of showstoppers stand in the way, and we are indeed warming up the engine. There’s not much point in trying to extrapolate to an in service date any more. In any event, that date hinges on the results of a pre service test period which is almost imminent but utterly unpredictable. Broken clocks work fine twice a day, and even if someone’s prediction turns out to be true, at this point it is based on something other than cause and effect.

Let’s just enjoy watching the trams as they start to move in earnest. And all be surprised together.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

I'm surprised - I'd have thought that would have been a recipe for a bad day. Yes, they'd certainly have been in place wherever at the start of their Sunday shift. I just assumed they'd be doing something else other than starting this "shadow" service on a Sunday.

Sunday is when the board period begins. When else are they supposed to start it?

30 days of refresher training? That seems a lot. How many days was their original training?

No, it should only take a couple of days - perhaps as little as 4.

But it's also going to depend on when the operators are scheduled. An operator scheduled to work Tuesday to Saturday is not going to begin their refresher on the Sunday, they will start it on the Tuesday when they are supposed to come in.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

Sheppard open on Friday November 22, 2002.

The SRT open Sunday March 24, 1985

That doesn't sound right to me. Sheppard operations must have started before that, as I recall being in the Bayview mall cinema earlier that fall, and you could feel the trains going every few minutes - and I knew the subway hadn't opened yet.

Perhaps you are looking the opening dates and not the start of trial operations?

Sunday is when the board period begins. When else are they supposed to start it?

After a couple of days of extra training, and identification to the operators of what the goals of trial will consist of. I'm surprised they started trial operations yesterday.

Personally, if I was god, I'd have had everyone stay home on Sunday, and then in for a briefing on Monday, and then start later in the week. But that would probably run afoul of the Union.

 

[T3G]

I think there's a lot of difference between a routine schedule change that's been going on for a hundred years, than the start of operations for a completely brand rail service. It's not the operators I'm thinking here, but given you'd likely want extra staffing, you should want senior management on hand for this one, who'd never be seen on the weekend normally, then why pay the overtime? Waiting a couple of days to deal with admin stuff (refresher training apparently) seems sensible to me.

For the launching of the service, sure, but for simulated testing? They've already been running test trains, it's just more now (or will be). Can't think what they'd need senior management on hand for.

And even for the launching of the service, I'm not convinced it's a problem. As indicated previously, all the suits made it out for the opening of the Spadina subway extension in December 2017 despite it being on a Sunday. And June 18, 2016 (Saturday), they had a ceremony for the opening of the streetcar line on Cherry Street.

That doesn't sound right to me. Sheppard operations must have started before that, as I recall being in the Bayview mall cinema earlier that fall, and you could feel the trains going every few minutes - and I knew the subway hadn't opened yet.

Perhaps you are looking the opening dates and not the start of trial operations?

Yes, those are opening dates. I haven't been able to find any information on when trial operations started on either, but there were various non revenue rides for VIPs, employees, and then the public, on the SRT from July 5 - 8, 1984, and then again on a handful of other days leading into mid August 1984, so they must have been at it for a while.

 

[drum118]

For the launching of the service, sure, but for simulated testing? They've already been running test trains, it's just more now (or will be). Can't think what they'd need senior management on hand for.

And even for the launching of the service, I'm not convinced it's a problem. As indicated previously, all the suits made it out for the opening of the Spadina subway extension in December 2017 despite it being on a Sunday. And June 18, 2016 (Saturday), they had a ceremony for the opening of the streetcar line on Cherry Street.


Yes, those are opening dates. I haven't been able to find any information on when trial operations started on either, but there were various non revenue rides for VIPs, employees, and then the public, on the SRT from July 5 - 8, 1984, and then again on a handful of other days leading into mid August 1984, so they must have been at it for a while.

You are for getting one thin, this not TTC system, but ML. What the suits at TTC would do is different than ML. But most of all, Ford and the Feds need to be on hand for the first ride, let alone the Mayor and council.

 

[Allandale25]

This article from today hasn't been posted yet.

‘Open heart surgery’: Metrolinx interim CEO warns of upcoming subway construction disruption | Globalnews.ca

In his speech to the Board of Trade, Metrolinx CEO Michael Lindsay said while progress might seem "incremental," transit projects are moving forward.

globalnews.ca

Not really any specific news but here are the highlights:

• During a speech to the Toronto Region Board of Trade Michael Lindsay, who was appointed interim CEO of Metrolinx in December, also suggested the agency is showing “humility” as it moves away from fixed-price, or P3, contracts in order to avoid painful transit construction delays similar to the Eglinton Crosstown LRT.
• While Lindsay didn’t directly reference the Eglinton LRT, he acknowledged that the public-private partnership model used for the Crosstown project grew to be a problem.
• “I think we came to understand that, in particular, the application of P3 models to the transit space led to overly confrontational relationships between builders and those who were owners,” Lindsay said.
• Multiple LRT projects, including the Eglinton Crosstown, Finch West LRT and Hurontario LRT, have encountered legal battles as the construction consortiums and Metrolinx battled over costs and delays.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

(maybe that's where all the extra spare bus drivers came from)?

There's a whole lot more spare bus drivers this board because the Spadina streetcar is now back in service.

 

[T3G]

You are for getting one thin, this not TTC system, but ML. What the suits at TTC would do is different than ML. But most of all, Ford and the Feds need to be on hand for the first ride, let alone the Mayor and council.

I hope very much that they won't be deferring the opening of the line so a bunch of narcissists are all free to make empty speeches.

Hopefully this line will be treated with more urgency than the new Flexity cars.

 

[drum118]

This article from today hasn't been posted yet.

‘Open heart surgery’: Metrolinx interim CEO warns of upcoming subway construction disruption | Globalnews.ca

In his speech to the Board of Trade, Metrolinx CEO Michael Lindsay said while progress might seem "incremental," transit projects are moving forward.

globalnews.ca

Not really any specific news but here are the highlights:

• During a speech to the Toronto Region Board of Trade Michael Lindsay, who was appointed interim CEO of Metrolinx in December, also suggested the agency is showing “humility” as it moves away from fixed-price, or P3, contracts in order to avoid painful transit construction delays similar to the Eglinton Crosstown LRT.
• While Lindsay didn’t directly reference the Eglinton LRT, he acknowledged that the public-private partnership model used for the Crosstown project grew to be a problem.
• “I think we came to understand that, in particular, the application of P3 models to the transit space led to overly confrontational relationships between builders and those who were owners,” Lindsay said.
• Multiple LRT projects, including the Eglinton Crosstown, Finch West LRT and Hurontario LRT, have encountered legal battles as the construction consortiums and Metrolinx battled over costs and delays.

I said to both the Province and the Fed's infrastructure folks at a 2006 Transit Summit that I co-chair that I saw a lot of issues with the P3 model and was assure d they were ready to deal with those issues.

We are seeing first hand now that those issues were not dealt with along with projects taking a lot longer to come on line as well over budget. In some cases, P3 teams have walked away from the project and sue who every was in charge of the project, especially around transit. It also reduce the number of bidders who can bid on these P3 projects to the point the final bid is well over the budget cost in the first place.

What is not known is what will be the real cost of a P3 will be for operation of a line and how much will the city, state and province have to kick in the keep riders fare not taking a spike down the road compare to regular fare increases. With Toronto lines been paid for by the province now, we may never know what the true cost will be for the next 30 years, with Mississauga seeking the same funding by the province as Toronto with Hamilton still to come.

Mississauga/Brampton at this time have no idea how much they will kick in yearly to to cover the yearly cost and will it be more than what they fund for their transit systems so riders don't have to pay an extra fare to use the LRT.

 

[smallspy]

That doesn't sound right to me. Sheppard operations must have started before that, as I recall being in the Bayview mall cinema earlier that fall, and you could feel the trains going every few minutes - and I knew the subway hadn't opened yet.

Sheppard started the simulated service at the beginning of September of 2002.

After a couple of days of extra training, and identification to the operators of what the goals of trial will consist of. I'm surprised they started trial operations yesterday.

The new board period started on Sunday. That means that the refresher training started for some operators started on Sunday. And for some others, yesterday. And for still more, today.

Simulated service can't start until the first group of operators have finished their refreshers.

Personally, if I was god, I'd have had everyone stay home on Sunday, and then in for a briefing on Monday, and then start later in the week. But that would probably run afoul of the Union.

Except that makes no sense. If I signed work for Tuesday to Saturday, why are you penalizing me by making me come in on days that I specifically signed to have off? What are you going to do with the people who signed for work on Sundays? Are they just going to be sitting and twiddling their thumbs for 8+ hours? How about the people who are scheduled for later in the day on Mondays?

Perhaps this is why it's best that you leave the planning of shifts to the experts.

Dan

 

[ZEBuilder]

This article from today hasn't been posted yet.

‘Open heart surgery’: Metrolinx interim CEO warns of upcoming subway construction disruption | Globalnews.ca

In his speech to the Board of Trade, Metrolinx CEO Michael Lindsay said while progress might seem "incremental," transit projects are moving forward.

globalnews.ca

Not really any specific news but here are the highlights:

• During a speech to the Toronto Region Board of Trade Michael Lindsay, who was appointed interim CEO of Metrolinx in December, also suggested the agency is showing “humility” as it moves away from fixed-price, or P3, contracts in order to avoid painful transit construction delays similar to the Eglinton Crosstown LRT.
• While Lindsay didn’t directly reference the Eglinton LRT, he acknowledged that the public-private partnership model used for the Crosstown project grew to be a problem.
• “I think we came to understand that, in particular, the application of P3 models to the transit space led to overly confrontational relationships between builders and those who were owners,” Lindsay said.
• Multiple LRT projects, including the Eglinton Crosstown, Finch West LRT and Hurontario LRT, have encountered legal battles as the construction consortiums and Metrolinx battled over costs and delays.

I wouldn't necessarily say P3s are a failure, it's above all else an issue with the team running the P3 (Metrolinx). Waterloo Region's LRT was a P3 which Metrolinx had no say in which didn't have anywhere near the delays. With only the Region running the show communication was simple and straightforward without having even more stakeholders than needed (like Metrolinx P3s). The Region did do projects well before the P3 was signed (tunnel under 7/8) which certainly made things easier.

Sure Waterloo Region's LRT was delayed however it was almost entirely due to Bombardier's incompetence on delivering trains on time. Construction was completed in 2017 which was when the line was intended to open, it opened in 2019 purely because Bombardier couldn't get them trains. Certainly not all P3s are failures it's more so the people running them don't know what they're doing.

Keep in mind Waterloo Region did this while still having to pay for 1/3 of the line which larger areas like Mississauga, Hamilton and Toronto haven't had to do.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I wonder if the Crosstown (excluding the separate western expansion) is the longest railed transit project in Canadian history? The Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR) from Montreal to Vancouver took about four years of major construction, and about 14 years from inception to completion. As of today the Eglinton Crosstown LRT is still not open — which is over 13 years since construction began and 16 years since the project was first announced. Has any other rail transit project in Canada taken so long from beginning to completion?

I recall that the Montreal REM (Réseau express métropolitain) won't finish its connection to the airport until 2027, so that's more than 15 years since it was announced - but a good portion of the REM began operating in 2023, while the entirety of the Crosstown has yet to begin operation.

 

[nfitz]

Except that makes no sense. If I signed work for Tuesday to Saturday, why are you penalizing me by making me come in on days that I specifically signed to have off? What are you going to do with the people who signed for work on Sundays? Are they just going to be sitting and twiddling their thumbs for 8+ hours? How about the people who are scheduled for later in the day on Mondays?

Perhaps this is why it's best that you leave the planning of shifts to the experts.

That's sounds more like planning by the unions. You just work a different hours the first week. The kind of workplace flexibility that unions kill.

Though the obvious solution is that this is written into the sign-up period. Though I'm sure there's some moronic contract agreement that forbids preordained week-to-week variances in which days/hours one works.

 

[T3G]

That's sounds more like planning by the unions. You just work a different hours the first week. The kind of workplace flexibility that unions kill.

Though the obvious solution is that this is written into the sign-up period. Though I'm sure there's some moronic contract agreement that forbids preordained week-to-week variances in which days/hours one works.

I'm really not following your angle, here... why do they need this flexibility to run a simulated service with no passengers?

I'm not seeing the unions killing anything. I'm seeing that it makes no sense to change the shifts someone works one week for no other reason than to allow some managers to Stand By And Sternly Observe for the first day. As I said in a previous post, they've already been running test trains for several years now, there's just going to be more of them. If an emergency should manifest, or if they are that nosy, then the suits can rush down there ad hoc. Otherwise there would be no service outside of the 9-5 hours at all.