[innsertnamehere]

No offense but until Steve Munro tells me that I remain sceptical that is a fact.. It might be but I dont know... Has steve commented on this issue? If it isnt possible why were so many counsellors trying to suggest that it could be repurposed.

because councillors have very little knowledge of the inner workings of a provincial transit agency. what I pointed out isn't that hard to understand, the UPX tracks are on the western side of Georgetown, but the station at Union is on the eastern side, meaning that the trains must pass over up to 6 different tracks to reach it. if this were to occur every 2.5 minutes, it would make other GO operations almost impossible. the UPX operates under GO conditions, mixed rail, along with freight and VIA operations. to suggest it is a simple operation to make it a metro style service is silly. it would cost billions to do so, at which point you could build the western DRL as a subway as well as the Eglinton airport for minimally more cost. as with many cities, Toronto's airport access will remain either the premium UPX or the airport express bus. (which would take almost as long as an LRT connection anyways)

 

[sixrings]

because councillors have very little knowledge of the inner workings of a provincial transit agency. what I pointed out isn't that hard to understand, the UPX tracks are on the western side of Georgetown, but the station at Union is on the eastern side, meaning that the trains must pass over up to 6 different tracks to reach it. if this were to occur every 2.5 minutes, it would make other GO operations almost impossible. the UPX operates under GO conditions, mixed rail, along with freight and VIA operations. to suggest it is a simple operation to make it a metro style service is silly. it would cost billions to do so, at which point you could build the western DRL as a subway as well as the Eglinton airport for minimally more cost. as with many cities, Toronto's airport access will remain either the premium UPX or the airport express bus. (which would take almost as long as an LRT connection anyways)

you just made me very sad.... ok i will be happy with the Eglinton line to the \AIRPORT

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The UPX issue has almost turned into an "us vs. them" issue, whereby all of us "normal folk" hate on the big bad rich business guys that'll be able to afford the UPX fares lol. Just a comedic observation. (Note: I understand the greater issue at hand )

Rightly or wrongly, the UPX is very much an us vs. them issue. There's no getting around the fact that taxpayers are paying hundreds of millions of dollars to build a line that will cost $30 per passenger per direction to operate, just so a few businessmen can get a comfortable ride and WiFi to their financial district hotel. And the lack of stations and high the high ticket price will very likely make this line useless to "regular" Torontonians.

But I really do feel that this us vs. them attitude in the UPX is misplaced. What people should really be upset is that the UPX is a poorly planned, cheaply built wasted opportunity. If we had decided to widen the rail corridors, lay down TTC gauge track on the Weston Corridor from Bloor to Eglinton, connect it to the DRL, build additional stations and complete the Eglinton LRT to Pearson, we would have a system that would have moved literally dozens (maybe hundreds) of times more people for a relatively low price.

because councillors have very little knowledge of the inner workings of a provincial transit agency. what I pointed out isn't that hard to understand, the UPX tracks are on the western side of Georgetown, but the station at Union is on the eastern side, meaning that the trains must pass over up to 6 different tracks to reach it. if this were to occur every 2.5 minutes, it would make other GO operations almost impossible. the UPX operates under GO conditions, mixed rail, along with freight and VIA operations. to suggest it is a simple operation to make it a metro style service is silly. it would cost billions to do so, at which point you could build the western DRL as a subway as well as the Eglinton airport for minimally more cost. as with many cities, Toronto's airport access will remain either the premium UPX or the airport express bus. (which would take almost as long as an LRT connection anyways)

+1

 

[TheTigerMaster]

couldnt they just rip up the tracks and put down subway tracks"?

No. Other trains use that line.

But widening the rail corridor (especially from Bloor to Eglinton) would have been a very inexpensive solution that would have added significantly to our rapid transit network. This was such a wasted opportunity

 

[sixrings]

see i thought that the upx was on a new line... i thought thats what all the construction was about... widening the corridor to put down a new line.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

see i thought that the upx was on a new line... i thought thats what all the construction was about... widening the corridor to put down a new line.

The only new construction is a spur line from Weston corridor to Pearson, the new stations and some other minor things.

 

[innsertnamehere]

they are adding tracks to the corridor, but it is still mixed rail tracks.

changing the UPX to a ttc operation would have raised the cost from $500 million to multiple billions, it wouldn't have been an easy operation.

and I repeat, nobody has any idea what ticket prices will be. so stop saying it will cost $30.

also, the point is to get to the airport. if you are going to hop on a $200-$2000 flight, are really that cheap to only be willing to pay $2.65 to get there?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

and I repeat, nobody has any idea what ticket prices will be. so stop saying it will cost $30.

The auditor general has said that it would be ~$30 for the operation to be cost neutral. But we don't know what the ticket price will be. I feel that $20 will be a good price, but that would still need a massive subsidy

also, the point is to get to the airport. if you are going to hop on a $200-$2000 flight, are really that cheap to only be willing to pay $2.65 to get there?

It's not a matter of being cheap. There are many families in this city that are running on tight budgets. They won't be able afford to pay $20 - $30 (I'm estimating the cost - I know that we don't know the final cost) per direction. For a family of four, that's $160 - $240 for a round trip on the UPX.

However, the cost of the ride to the airport isn't the main frustration for most people. It's that the ticket price for this line will likely be so high that it can't be used for their daily commutes. Of course this line isn't designed to help move Torontonians to and from work, but I hope that we can see why someone living in Rexdale would be incredibly frustrated that they're subsidizing this thing.

 

[nfitz]

However, the cost of the ride to the airport isn't the main frustration for most people. It's that the ticket price for this line will likely be so high that it can't be used for their daily commutes. Of course this line isn't designed to help move Torontonians to and from work, but I hope that we can see why someone living in Rexdale would be incredibly frustrated that they're subsidizing this thing.

There's no reason they could charge $30 to the airport, and simple existing GO fare to Weston. It's not stopping in Rexdale.

 

[andrewpmk]

they are adding tracks to the corridor, but it is still mixed rail tracks.

changing the UPX to a ttc operation would have raised the cost from $500 million to multiple billions, it wouldn't have been an easy operation.

and I repeat, nobody has any idea what ticket prices will be. so stop saying it will cost $30.

also, the point is to get to the airport. if you are going to hop on a $200-$2000 flight, are really that cheap to only be willing to pay $2.65 to get there?

A lot of the potential users are people who work at the airport or the surrounding area, they are not going to pay outrageous prices to use this line, they will continue to clog up the Gardiner and 401.

 

[picard102]

and I repeat, nobody has any idea what ticket prices will be. so stop saying it will cost $30.

The Ontario Auditor General certainly thinks it will need to be in the $30 range, each way, to break even, unless we're fine with subsiding a luxury line for wealthy business people.

also, the point is to get to the airport. if you are going to hop on a $200-$2000 flight, are really that cheap to only be willing to pay $2.65 to get there?

The cost of the flight is irrelevant.

 

[innsertnamehere]

what I'm trying to say is that the people using this line aren't lacking $$$

 

[nfitz]

A lot of the potential users are people who work at the airport or the surrounding area, they are not going to pay outrageous prices to use this line, they will continue to clog up the Gardiner and 401.

There's no reason that they can't sell a single ticket at $30 and a monthly pass at $150.

There's also no reason that airport workers can't be entitled to buy a pass at special pricing - which is what they do at Heathrow ... with the monthly pass on Heathrow connect from the closest station being £19.85 a month and a weekly is £5.15 a week compared to a one-way trip of £5.60. The pass pays for itself if you use it 2 days a month. If you buy an annual pass it's only From Paddington it's only £17.25 a month - about the cost of 3 trips.

A bit more expensive if you go all the way from Paddington. The weekly pass is £12.70, the monthly £48.85 and the annual £42.40 - but compare to a 1-way ticket of £9.50 or £20.00 for a non-stop express train.

It will be interesting to see if there's eventually any express trains from Union to Pearson, and what kind of pricing they'd be compared to the ones that stop at Bloor and Weston.

what I'm trying to say is that the people using this line aren't lacking $$$

??? Many airport works aren't getting much better than minimum wage. With about 100,000 or so passengers a day, compared to about 100,000 airport workers and another 80,000 in the surrounding facilities, then surely the majority of transit trips to the airport are going to be the workers, not the passengers.

 

[andrewpmk]

There's no reason that they can't sell a single ticket at $30 and a monthly pass at $150.

The airport rail link does not have the capacity to accommodate the hundreds of thousands of people working at the airport and the surrounding area that could potentially use it. Nor does it have the capacity to accommodate people going from Weston, Black Creek/Eglinton, and Dundas West to downtown at reasonable fares.

If bus #192 and the subway costs $2.65, a bus + the Eglinton light rail costs $2.65 and the airport rail link costs $20-$30, guess what people will use?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'm going to email the MTO to extend the Eglinton Line to Renforth. This is ridculous, pay 10 dollars when in NY it's bus fare.