[BurlOak]

Ah, that's good news. That means the second tunnelling contract will have a fighting chance of being all signed with construction underway sometime next year, which will make it difficult for Hudak to fulfill his promise of cancelling/deferring much of this line. I assume then there'd also be an earlier contract awarded for the Don Mills Road launch site, similar to the earlier contract for the Black Creek launch site.

Are also you worried if the NDP or Liberals get into power they will cancel the plans for the DRL. After all, Mr. Layton was a key player in preventing the DRL from being built in the 1980's, and the Liberals are the ones who put a much higher priority on building subways to York Region than building a DRL.

 

[nfitz]

Are also you worried if the NDP or Liberals get into power they will cancel the plans for the DRL.

I'm not worried about the Liberals cancelling plans for the DRL. We can certainly kiss it goodbye with the Conservatives ... and the NDP? What did they do last time they were in power ... cut GO service, and then dither.

Perhaps the NDP would build it ... but they certainly haven't promised it. The Liberals have. And Wynne has made it VERY clear that she's very pro-transit.

We've got a good chance at finally trying to catch up some of the huge infrastructure gap, with the DRL, Yonge extension, and the rest of Metrolinx projects. The key however is the funding formula. If they can hold off the election until 2015 or 2016 until it is properly in place, perhaps we won't be subject to such short-term changes in plans everytime we change governments.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Are also you worried if the NDP or Liberals get into power they will cancel the plans for the DRL. After all, Mr. Layton was a key player in preventing the DRL from being built in the 1980's, and the Liberals are the ones who put a much higher priority on building subways to York Region than building a DRL.

How the hell will the liberals drop support for the DRL if they literally just moved it up on their priority list?

 

[dowlingm]

How the hell will the liberals drop support for the DRL if they literally just moved it up on their priority list?

"Priorities" don't mean much at the Ministry of Finance.

 

[gweed123]

not if we get sent into an election this summer, which seems quite possible since Horvath doesn't seem to be backing down on the car insurance thing. (personally I think they should go with Gweed's Idea of public car insurance funding public infrastructure) Gweed, now would be a good time to send that Idea to your MP! (who is hopefully a liberal)

My MP is John Baird, so I don't see much happening there . But my MPP is Bob Chiarelli, so there may actually be some hope there. I'll write something up and see how it looks.

As for elections, I can see the Liberals and the NDP working together for at least a year or two. When you look at the polls now, they're pretty much a 3-way tie, with no party having a large enough advantage to really want to jump into an election (the PCs do, just because they don't like their position now). But as long as neither the Liberals nor the NDP have any real chance of security a majority, or even a solid minority, neither of them see much point in calling an election now.

When it comes to funding and priorities, I do think that holding on for another year will make a world of difference. It's a lot harder to undo something than it is to not get something started. The DRL won't be at that point yet, but the Crosstown and the Metrolinx revenue tools will hopefully be underway/implemented by then.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

They should have done cut and cover! This is ridiculous. Cut and Cover would have save 5 years and maybe this is up and running in 2018! Same with the DRL. Hell cut and cover would all us to do all the Transit projects faster.

 

[nfitz]

They should have done cut and cover! This is ridiculous. Cut and Cover would have save 5 years and maybe this is up and running in 2018! Same with the DRL. Hell cut and cover would all us to do all the Transit projects faster.

This makes no sense whatsoever. All the tunnelling will be finished in 2016, taking only 3 years. How would you save 5 years doing cut and cover?

Wouldn't cut and cover take longer? And be more expensive on Eglinton given all the services? And can you imagine the disruption?

Am I missing something? Is this some kind of humour I'm not getting?

 

[JayBeeGooner]

They should have done cut and cover! This is ridiculous. Cut and Cover would have save 5 years and maybe this is up and running in 2018! Same with the DRL. Hell cut and cover would all us to do all the Transit projects faster.

Take a walk along Eglinton, and you'll understand why cut and cover would be significantly more expensive, and will take longer than tunneling.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the longer construction time is because the government wants to spread the cost of the project over 8 years?

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Take a walk along Eglinton, and you'll understand why cut and cover would be significantly more expensive, and will take longer than tunneling.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the longer construction time is because the government wants to spread the cost of the project over 8 years?

While underground work maybe done 24-hours, any surface work or work that causes vibrations has to be suspended overnight or early morning. Don't know the exact hours, but I would want no noise while I'm sleeping in the area. Those non-work hours (and holidays and Sundays?) will eat into the schedule. Wonder when they dig through the areas east of Allen Road, would they also suspend the noise during the Sabbath and their holidays?

 

[nfitz]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the longer construction time is because the government wants to spread the cost of the project over 8 years?

That's a factor, particularly in the early years. Also the timeframe required to get this PPP thing going, and the desire not to be building stations at every major intersection along Eglinton simultaneously. Though at the rate they are going, 2015 to 2018 is going to be a nightmare for driving in that area.

Still, 7 years from the launch of the first TBM to opening isn't massively long. The much shorter Spadina extension had the first TBM launch in June 2011, and the opening is scheduled for 5.5 years later.

 

[BurlOak]

They should have done cut and cover! This is ridiculous. Cut and Cover would have save 5 years and maybe this is up and running in 2018! Same with the DRL. Hell cut and cover would all us to do all the Transit projects faster.

I am not sure, but I think the decision to use TBM was before they realized that boring could not be done under the existing subway lines. Essentially, these are 3 separate boring jobs each about 3 km long (the East one is a bit longer now that the launch site was moved to Don Mills). In those 3 kilometres, there are 3 or 4 stations (each with probably about a 200m cut excavation), plus a launch and extraction site. This means that even though TBM is used, about 1/3 of the total length is actually built with cut-and-cover. (If the station spacing on the DRL are closer, this could become over half).

I wonder why this is being built P3. Design–bid–build (design–tender) would require all design work for each step to be done before award. Design-Build could shorten the construction time a bit by only having preliminary design completed prior to tender, but the construction risk may be a bit higher. P3 (or AFP) is best suited for the entire process. There are a lot more risks for an "operate" contract so the Contractor needs to have enough flexibility to implement some inovative techniques to save enough money to compensate for the risks. I would have thought a real P3 contract would allow the contractor to propose different construction methods within certain contract constraints. It looks like they are using a combination of tendering methods and P3 is specified just to say it is being used, but not to actually try saving money or getting a better product.

 

[sixrings]

went for a jog today and noticed they have taken down the trees in front of the police station at allen road and 1069 eglinton avenue west. I always thought that 1069 could make for some good land for a higher 8 floor condo with retail to appear. However I always thought the trees wouldn't help that. I am extremely sad to see the Trees gone however if this opens up possibilities for some redevelopment I might be OK with it... these were some good sized trees BTW.

 

[Rainforest]

Ferrand is too close to Don Mills and shoehorning the tunnel portal between the two stations means that there is no room for tail tracks east of Don Mills, which would make short turning easier to manage.

The detailed design of the Don Mills station and adjacent line segments is not available yet. They might be able to keep the tail track (east of Don Mills) underground, while the two main revenue tracks ascend to the surface level before the Ferrand stop.

Given that the Eglinton line is designed for 90-m trains at most, they will need something like 120 m of extra tunnel; or even less if the western half of tail track is located in the section that will be tunneled anyway.

 

[nfitz]

I am not sure, but I think the decision to use TBM was before they realized that boring could not be done under the existing subway lines. Essentially, these are 3 separate boring jobs each about 3 km long (the East one is a bit longer now that the launch site was moved to Don Mills). In those 3 kilometres, there are 3 or 4 stations (each with probably about a 200m cut excavation), plus a launch and extraction site. This means that even though TBM is used, about 1/3 of the total length is actually built with cut-and-cover. (If the station spacing on the DRL are closer, this could become over half).

There are no launch and extraction sites at each station. The tunnel is built first, and then the station is built after, except for Eglinton and Eglinton West, where this is extraction and launch sites. They were fully aware that they couldn't bore under the subway lines.

The TBM tunnelling is only about $50 million per km of twin-tunnel. It's had to imagine that cut-and-cover would be that cheap, especially given the topography, depth, and soils involved.

 

[innsertnamehere]

important to note that the Eglinton crosstown will be built much differently than the Spadina extension. the TBM's will bore through each station with only the shoring having being performed, and full excavation for each stop will be performed only when the tunnel borer is long gone. They will dig down to the existing Tunnel Bore, and remove the Concrete liner to create the station.