[argus]

Who wants a second level? It'd be a perfect place for those inclined to grab a chair and take a snooze inside a Timmy's - particularly the 24-hour stores.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Second level in a coffee shop, who wants to go there

A coffee shop can never have enough seating area!

This new EmeraldPark TimHortons store will be replacing the SheppardCentre TimHortons store which is the size of a 1-bedroom condo; it only has a few seating area and many are just ledges/shelves against the wall or window. Here's an image (from zomato.com) of the SheppardCentre TimHortons (notice how those folks are sitting, even their feet are encroaching onto the mall's common area):

From a customer's prespective, the current SheppardCentre TimHortons is always packed but they've been losing customers for years,.... if customers can't get a table, they go to the next coffee shop with table,... and free wifi. Nearby along Yonge Street in NYCC, there's practically a coffee shop on every block: SecondCup & TimHortons in SheppardCentre, 7-11 & McDonald's at northwest corner of Yonge&Shepaprd, Cafe at WholeFoodsMarket in HullmarkCentre, Starbucks in Avondale (another Starbucks on 2nd floor of EmeraldPark), JavaJoe in NestleBuilding, each gas station (Esso, Shell & PetroCan) have their own coffee shop, cafe at lower concourse level of ProctorGamble building, Druxy, CountryStyle, m2m cafe, Bake Code, etc,....

Needless to say, a lot of these customers live in condos and just need a more spacious place to get away from their cramp quarters to just hang out with their laptop or to socialize with a few friends; and they'll be taking the table for an hour or so instead of the 2 minutes it takes to drink a cup of coffee. Thus, coffee shop can never have enough seating area,... as soon as they're full, they lose customers to their competitors.

The EmeraldPark TimHortons space is interesting in that it's 3000 square feet with about 25 feet ceiling height,.... this TimHortons will have it's own in-store washrooms and likely another business in the TimHortons store,... which means there will be less and less room for seating areas,... keep in mind each of these units cost about a million dollar each, so the best way to build will be upward into a second floor seating area - given that they already have 25 feet ceilings,... look at the previous image of how huge the floor to ceiling glass windows are,... at a coffee shop, the first seats to be taken are always the window seats. People go to coffee shops to wake up and sunlight by the windows give them that extra boost, vitamin D and Yonge Street watching,... and yes, for those who want to snooze, there's non-window seats in the back away from the sunlight.

As TimHortons move more into ready-made food business,... the biggest competition for the EmeraldPark TimHortons will be the cafe at WholeFoodsMarket at HullmarkCentre directly across Yonge Street which is packed and has plans to expand since it's by far the busiest part of that supermarket.


From a business perspective, second floor seating is a necessity of urbanization. Since EatonCentre opened 40 years ago, every single McDonalds/McCafe (current and old) on Yonge Street between College and King Street (outside of EatonCentre) have always had second floor seating (ditto McDonalds/McCafe at Queen&Spadina and for old McDonalds at Bazis Exhibit site). Why? These are businesses in competitive market (fast-food/coffee industry) where margins are razor slim and profit are based on volume,... in order to generate volume, they need lower cost seating area (which exclude knocking down the store next door for more street-level seating),... that means building upward.

From a planning perspective, if EmeraldPark TimHortons store were to request adding a second floor seating area within their store; that design would first have to be approved by the building management, then city planning since retail area increases and the previously approved proportion changes (retail vs office vs residential), might even need amendments at North York Committee of Adjustments,... basically it could be a longer process.

 

[Mint]

2 floor seating would be great but for some reason I doubt it happens...
Also, there's a Starbucks opening on 2nd floor @ Emerald Park?

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

2 floor seating would be great but for some reason I doubt it happens...
Also, there's a Starbucks opening on 2nd floor @ Emerald Park?

Starbucks was long rumoured to set up shop at EmeraldPark since the beginning,... including Loblaw's T&T and a national bank on Yonge frontage (those drywalls separating Yonge Street frontage stores in previous photos don't make banks secure).

After Loblaws T&T bailed, Metro brought the entire second floor of EmeraldPark,..... the Metro was supposed to have market-stations all around the perimeter,..... including the LCBO and Starbuck kiosk near the elevators and top of the escalators area. The second floor supermarket probably would have had a cafe/eating area as well by the escalator since nearby there also seems to be an outdoor patio area set up (south side middle almost above the mall entrance doors on Poyntz but a bit further west),..... Metro seems to have found a way out since Bazis seem late in delivery of supermarket space,.... still looking for real confirmation but the timelines seems to show that's the case,.... and the fact that the Supermarket space is as deserted as a desert since Bazis last used it as construction staging area earlier this year. Thus right now, the LCBO store (completed just no inventory!) and Starbucks kiosk (water pipes already set up in floor) seems to be in limbo,.....

 

[Mint]

Interesting.

Seems like Presotea is open now (or maybe they are just testing the sign). Also looks like another one of the Yonge st. storefronts has been taken by something called Whale(?) which is going to be a natural fruit juice (I assume pressed juice) store.

 

[Bill123]

So far it looks like the yonge frontage stores are not allowed to have a highly visible outdoor sign. It looks like at best they will have to hide the sign behind the window which is not visible when there is glare. This is a very strange practice that I think we only see here.

 

[AHK]

So far it looks like the yonge frontage stores are not allowed to have a highly visible outdoor sign. It looks like at best they will have to hide the sign behind the window which is not visible when there is glare. This is a very strange practice that I think we only see here.

The exterior skin of the building would be common element, and exceptions would be required to the typical condominium rules which prohibit unit owners from posting signs on the exterior of their units.

If the retail component had been retained by the developer, or had been sold off in a block to a third party investor to be rented out piecemeal, and not sold as condominium units to the individual investors, and that section of the building had been legally severed from the rest of the condominium complex - then the owner of the retail component could make their own rules regarding affixing of signage to their portion of the building.

It is possible that this issue could have been addressed in the Disclosure documents (articles specifically allowing exterior signage for the retail components), and in the initial set of rules adopted by the Declarant's Board (again, the standard clause prohibiting signage being attached to the common element exterior walls - an exception being made for the retail units) - but this is something that could very well have been missed.

 

[Mint]

I haven't really had any issues recognizing Presotea or that giant THE MAZE sign which is super bright at night

 

[Mint]

I think they had a poster taped to the glass but I don't know if they still have it

 

[UD2]

Probably not a good idea attaching signs on glass facades in any case.

The stores facing beecroft currently have signed mounted inside the facade and they are fairly visible.

 

[Bill123]

Im talking about when there is glare from the sun or sky. When there is glare you can only see the sign if you are facing it directly. So people driving past and even walking by can miss the sign.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

As for signage for Yonge Street frontage stores,.... hmmm, let's see how Tridel HullmarkCentre does it (better)! Oh, so the big green WholeFoodsMarket signage won't work at EmeraldPark,... but what about the smaller signage that hangs from the bottom of the canopy,.... that's how the Rexall and RBC signs are hung!

EmeraldPark Yonge Street frontage stores have canopy too,.... and the some of the canopy's black I-beams already has holes at the end (mainly the ones near the corners),... what are these holes for? Maybe for hanging signs!!!!

 

[Tony L]

 

[amnesiajune]

Is that the top maintenance floor?

 

[Tony L]

Is that the top maintenance floor?

Penthouse ,west tower