pipolchap
Active Member
I agree. With limited resources, I'll take just Yonge! But maybe one day, bike lanes will be as automatic as putting a sidewalk next to a road when built.
- Thread starter AlbertC
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I agree. With limited resources, I'll take just Yonge! But maybe one day, bike lanes will be as automatic as putting a sidewalk next to a road when built.
amnesiajune
Senior Member
Downtown, perhaps. The problem up here is that there aren't many places to go. Even just biking to Yonge & Eglinton takes 30+ minutes and you have to go up a giant hill in the middle.
The one thing I'm hoping for though is an extension of bike lanes like the ones they have on Bloor to go up Yonge, at least from Yonge Boulevard down to Davenport. Then they could probably branch off onto Bay and Church, and link to Davenport and the Rosedale Valley/Bayview Extension/Don River Trail.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
"purely anecdotal" you say,... these first link show Yonge&Sheppard-401 2nd worst in Toronto (how it's beaten by Bayview&Sheppard is beyond me),..... 2nd link shows Yonge&Sheppard-401 and Yonge&Finch intersection are amongst Toronto's worst and on Mayor' HotSpot to-do list,.... and next link shows "Traffic survey ranks Vancouver, Toronto among worst commutes in North America",... thus, by simple logic, Yonge&Sheppard-401 and Yonge&Finch - shows Yonge Street in NorthYorkCentre would be among worst traffic congestion in NorthAmerica,.... right?
"Toronto identifies top 10 most congested intersections" ranked with Yonge - 401 to Sheppard #2 behind Sheppard&Bayview
http://www.wheels.ca/top-ten/toronto-identifies-top-10-most-congested-intersections/
"These are the 10 busiest intersections in Toronto",... not ranked but both Yonge&Sheppard and Yonge&Finch in list:
http://www.blogto.com/city/2016/09/these_are_the_10_busiest_intersections_in_toronto/
"Traffic survey ranks Vancouver, Toronto among worst commutes in North America"
http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/tr...toronto-among-worst-gridlock-in-north-america
Your "purely anecdotal" "drove down Yonge yesterday from Finch to Bogert. Took me all of three minutes to drive 2 km in the middle of rush hour (5:45 PM)" as a benchmark is flawed,... time that same drive south on Yonge from Finch to Bogert in the middle of AM Rush Hour (starting around 8:00-8:15am southbound on Yonge from Finch to Bogert). AM Peak Time is the main factor traffic engineers look at.
With 60+ residential condo towers built over the last 20 years VS 1 new office tower,.... NorthYorkCentre is now a vertical sleeping community,.... as more traffic flows out during AM PeakTime vs in,... and more traffic flows in during PM Peak time Vs out. Thus you choose the most favourable BS benchmark,.... you flowed out toward the end of PM PeakTime (NorthYorkCentre workforce has lots of municipal workers who are mainly out of the office at 4:00pm!),... in order for you to have made that 2.16km trip south on Yonge Street from Finch to Bogert,... you must have averaged about 43km/hr and hit every single green light,... because each red traffic signal would have added about another minute to your trip,... On Yonge there's 7 signalized intersections between Finch and Bogert and you managed to hit green signal at all 7 signalized intersections, Wow, you should buy a lottery ticket!!! Toronto smart traffic signal system is supposed to give green light priority to the higher volume traffic flowing northbound on Yonge in PM Peak Time and even they won't hit all 7 signalized intersection at green light,....
Finch to Bogert?,... oh, that's right you live at EmeraldPark,.... could you do me a favour and post a photo of EmeraldPark bike parking spaces, please. Thanks! They're in the northeast corner of the loading dock area.
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sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Councillor Filion might be a lame duck councillor,...
Trust me, if the city staff and consultants on ReImagining Yonge Street Study could have reduced traffic lanes on Yonge Street south of Sheppard,... they would have! But I'll leave it as an exercise for you to figure out why they're not allowed to reduce the traffic lanes on Yonge south of Sheppard.
But instead, they're keeping 3 northbound and 3 southbound traffic lanes,... adding cycle tracks to each side of the roads,.... making it even more difficult for pedestrians to cross Yonge Street east-west at Sheppard, Poyntz/Anndale and Florence/Avondale - now these pedestrians will have to cross 9 lanes of traffic! EmeraldPark residents won't benefit since most of the area retailers are on the other side of Yonge Street,... including all the local banks and grocery stores! EmeraldPark retailers won't benefit since most of their local customers come from the other side of Yonge Street where there is more density!
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amnesiajune
Senior Member
(A) The math doesn't add up there. 3+3+2 = 8
(B) What happened to "nobody will use the bike lanes"?
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Oh good,.... we're actually in agreement on something!
Now you'll be agreeing with me that the pilot bike lanes should be removed on Bloor Street,.... here's Cycle Toronto data (differ from city) and it actually shows the pilot Bloor bike lanes actually move LESS people along Bloor Street now!
https://www.cycleto.ca/news/moving-right-along
Oh, don't be confused by their misleading "Total Traffic" number,.... it sums the total number of bicycles and motor vehicles which makes it look more favourable for them,.... but of course, bicycles typically host only 1 person whereas motor vehicles have an average of 1.5 people per vehicles,....
2013: Total People = 224 (Bicycles) + 1682 MotorVehicles x 1.5 = 2747
2016: Total People = 893 (Bicycles) + 1207 MotorVehicles x 1.5 = 2704
But of course, on for Bloor Street bike lanes, you have to keep in mind Harbord bike lanes traffic volume decreased since many cyclist shifted to Bloor and car volume increased in surrounding streets parallel to Bloor,....
And the neighbourhoods along the pilot Bloor Street bike lanes have about 10% cycling mode share,.... significantly higher than the average for downtown Toronto,.... but yet CycleToronto own data here shows these bike lanes actually moving even less people along Bloor Street! Then you factor in most of the businesses along Bloor Street revolting since many have lots 40% of their business due to lost of on-street parking,.....
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...-concerned-about-bloor-bike-lanes-impact.html
Thus, what will happen here in NorthYorkCentre where there's 0.0% cycling mode share amongst the residential condo towers,..... and 0.3-0.4% cycle mode share in Ward 23 Willowdale,..... 2/3 of Ward 23 residents are condo folks living in NorthYorkCentre like EmeraldPark residents. Why would they cycle, they already live within walking distance of most places they want to go along Yonge Street.
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sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
A: YOUR math doesn't add up,..... You forgot the Left Turn Lane,...... Current left turn lanes are converted to tree-lined centre median at Sheppard,... left turn lanes remain at Poyntz/Anndale and Florence/Avondale,.... pedestrian still have to cross this distance in the middle of Yonge Street
B: There's very low volume here,.... but pedestrians can't be waiting on bike lanes when they're waiting to cross Yonge Street,.... Pedestrian must be behind the cycle tracks,.... thus, they still have to cross the distance of 9 traffic lanes when crossing Yonge Street east-west at Sheppard, Poyntz/Anndale and Florence/Avondale
Go to your EmeraldPark loading docks and take a photo of the bike parking spaces,.... and you'll see "nobody will use the bike lanes" here.
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amnesiajune
Senior Member
That's because (and I have no clue why) they're designated as "visitor bike parking" only. If you live in the building you have to keep it in a locker in the parking garage
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
You're funny,.... EmeraldPark has 6 levels of underground parking, P1 & P2 are for commercial parking, residents' lockers are in P3, P4 and P5 level. Bikes are not allowed in EmeraldPark lobby and elevators, so you're telling me that EmeraldPark residents ride their bikes up and down circling at least 3 levels of underground parking to get to their locker - if they even have one! Even a lot of EmeraldPark drivers are so tired of driving up and down circling at least 3 levels of underground parking that they just gave up and pay to park their cars at the 4800 Yonge parking lot across the street.
Anyways,.... from CityPlanning Final Report for EmeraldPark - page 18: "The North York Centre Secondary Plan requires a minimum 0.10 bicycle parking spaces per residential
unit, which results in 57 spaces being required for the proposed development. For Commercial Uses (office, institutional, ancillary retail and service commercial) a minimum 1 bicycle space per 2,000 sq.m. of commercial gfa is required, which results 6 spaces. The spaces are required to be provided in an at- grade common bicycle room conveniently accessible to the outside"
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2010/ny/bgrd/backgroundfile-29871.pdf
CityPlanning requires 1 bike parking space for every 10 residential condo unit and since EmeraldPark (originally) has 565 residential condo units,... thus, 57 residential bike parking spaces + 6 Commercial bike parking spaces result in a total of 63 bike parking spaces at EmeraldPark to satisfy CityPlanning requirements.
In EmeraldPark loading dock area, there are exactly 63 bike parking spaces (7x2 + 8x2 + 9x2 + 3x2 = 54 double decker silver ones + 9 blue wall hangers) to satisfy CityPlanning minimum requirements. The "Visitor Bike Parking" signage is a sneaky way to satisfy the 6 required Commercial bike parking spaces by signaling this isn't just for residents. Usually a developer would segregate the bike parking spaces for residents VS commercial VS retail,... but Bazis is so cheap, it put all the bike parking space in the loading dock which is a common area accessible to all residents, commercial office and commercial retail.
Technically, EmeraldPark's 565 residential condo units increased by 18 to 583 residential condo units (when Bazis slashed ceiling height in WestTower to add 2 more floors) and thus would require another 2 bike parking space,.... but CityPlanning doesn't seem interested in pursueing that,.... since adding another 2 required bike parking space isn't really going to help here,.... as you can see from this picture of EmeraldPark bike parking space,.... Yep, 583 residential condo units with average of 2.5 residents per unit, thus there's about 1,458 residents at EmeraldPark,... and this is their bike parking space,.... and hence why StatisticsCanada census shows high density condo in NorthYorkCentre with 0.0% cycling mode share. Once in awhile I'll see a commuter cyclist come out of EmeraldPark in the morning, he's probably the lone commuter cyclist from EmeraldPark,.... thus, most of the other bikes are mainly recreational cyclist who cycle a few times a year and mainly use this area not for Bicycle Parking but as Bicycle Storage - as seen by all the dust accumulating on their bikes. Notice: the "Visitor Bike Parking" signage doesn't say "Visitor Bike Parking ONLY"
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amnesiajune
Senior Member
Speaking as someone who actually lives there...
Sort of. Half of P1 is residential parking, and there are ~40 lockers there.
No, you just bring your bike into the lobby and elevator anyways. 9 out of 10 times, the security people are okay with it or don't say anything, and if they do say something then you ignore them, because they aren't gonna do anything about it.
Except that if, as a resident, you ask to leave your bike there, you're told that you're not allowed - "it's only for visitors".
Sort of. Half of P1 is residential parking, and there are ~40 lockers there.
No, you just bring your bike into the lobby and elevator anyways. 9 out of 10 times, the security people are okay with it or don't say anything, and if they do say something then you ignore them, because they aren't gonna do anything about it.
Except that if, as a resident, you ask to leave your bike there, you're told that you're not allowed - "it's only for visitors".
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
It's in the EmeraldPark condo rules for common area, no bikes in lobby or elevators,..... I'd love to see a youtube video of you sneaking a bike into EmeraldPark condo lobby and elevator right pass security.
"Sort of.",..... the gate between Commercial parking of P1 & P2 level and Residential parking in P3, P4 & P5 parking level is at the end of P2 parking level and beginning of P3 residential parking level. EmeraldPark was originally supposed to provide about 70 underground parking spaces in their commercial parking levels for LansingUnitedChurch CommunityCentre as part of the density-height transfer but due to the disagreement between the church and Bazis (yeah, Bazis managed to piss off a church),.... so Bazis had to build an underground parking lot for the church - which delayed the church community centre project (still under construction) since you can't build the community centre on top until you finish the underground parking below,..... Anyway, Bazis as part of that deal, Bazis got back their 70 underground parking spaces at EmeraldPark P2 parking level some of which they were selling for about 50K to residents,..... P1 parking level is all commercial parking as is most of P2.
As for the 40 or so lockers in P1,... I can't find them,.... interesting the part of P3, P4 & P5 Residential parking level that host locker,.... actually host non-residential elevators for public parking, retail and offices and also garbage rooms, utility rooms on P1 & P2 parking levels. Thus, I'm can't seem to find the 40 or so lockers on P1 parking level,..... AmnesiaJune could you post a photo to help me find them,.... include the P1 section area and locker signage,... thanks!
You're funny if you think those are all visitors bike in the EmeraldPark Bicycle Parking area,..... since there's so much dust on those bikes, those "visitors" must have all died in EmeraldPark. ;p
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pipolchap
Active Member
What's there not to believe? He lives there, you don't! I'd like you to YouTube the lobby and prove that there is no bikes being brought in.
Actually, forget I said that, bc you probably would and annoy everyone around you!
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Hmmm,..... so you're going to sneak a bike into your little 500-700 square feet EmeraldPark condo unit,... where would you store a bike in your condo unit? A logical spot might be storing the bike on the balcony,.... but I must be blind since I don't see any bikes on any balcony at EmeraldPark. Hey, here's another,.... post a photo of a bike in your EmeraldPark condo unit or even on the balcony.
amnesiajune
Senior Member
When you go down into the garage and turn right, there's a gate right in front of you. There are also a bunch of lockers just before the gate. My bike is (presumably) sitting in one of them.
The condo rules also say I can't use the gym or pool after 10 pm, but I do that fairly often (and so do other people). They say I can't hang anything off my balcony, but I had plants hanging there all summer.
Mint
New Member
I've actually seen bikes go through the lobby. Honestly, security is pretty lax at EP. They don't even seem to care that hordes of people constantly park in front of the lot exit.