- Thread starter AlbertC
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sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Greetings UncleMeat,....
Actually, that MobileMender Electronic Retail & Repair shop likely belongs to our buddy, Bill123,... since he's the only one here committed to opening a shop at EmeraldPark and that's the only shop at EmeraldPark that still has a store name on it, everything else has for lease/sale,.... Note, I didn't say soon to open since the mall can't even pass city inspection yet,... speaking of which, last Friday I saw Rosario Varacalli & Michael Gold dropping off some files at North York City Planning,... not a good sign if they're dropping off revisions so late,... then they'll have to wait forever for building permits,... then construction can start,... arghhh,.....
Speaking of not passing city inspection,.... those metal tactile plates at the corner of the curb,.... didn't pass city inspection. I kid you NOT! Seriously,... it's a simple process that the developer is responsible for,... it's definitely not rocket science,.... just line up those metal plates side by side and make it flush with the cement curb! So simple a little kid can do it! If you get stuck,... just walk across Yonge Street and see how Tridel HullmarkCentre did it at their corners! Here`s Tridel's Hullmark Centre southeast corner of Yonge & Sheppard,... metal tactile plates with no gaps and flushed to curb,.... simple!
Photo below (early October with part of sidewalk fenced off) shows how EmeraldPark lined up those metal tactile plates with gaps in between each one and too far from the curb,... northwest corner of Yonge & Poyntz,.... with those gaps between the metal tactile plates - a visually impaired person using a white cane can have the cane go right through the gap,... and walk right into traffic! Furthermore, metal tactile plates are too far from curb,.... making it dangerous for visually impaired people,....
Photo below shows correction done today to same corner,... cement still wet,.... metal tactile plate with no gaps and flushed with curb where people expect them to be,....
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Bill123
Active Member
Welcome back SRT. Around a month ago I saw Roy there too but I was in denial since his office was in Vaughan. Turns out it really might have been him!
It seems that store is now the Anchor Tenant, haha.
They have blocked the main big entrance and the side entrance so now you can only get in through the door beside the 11 Bogert sign. You can see new orange spray paint markings on the concrete floor of some units which is probably what they will alter with their building permits. They also turned off some of the pot lights so they might be installing something in the first floor ceiling... or perhaps the mold damaged the pot lights?
They might have temporarily stopped mall renovations because of failing city inspection. A lot of the stores have the buildings foundation run right through the layout and as SRT said there is something wrong with foundation that the city has noticed.
This is one of the only units with a closed ceiling but that has a price to it...3 foundation pillars right in the front, middle and back of the layout.
Looks like its going to be a while before this mall opens officially...
It seems that store is now the Anchor Tenant, haha.
They have blocked the main big entrance and the side entrance so now you can only get in through the door beside the 11 Bogert sign. You can see new orange spray paint markings on the concrete floor of some units which is probably what they will alter with their building permits. They also turned off some of the pot lights so they might be installing something in the first floor ceiling... or perhaps the mold damaged the pot lights?
They might have temporarily stopped mall renovations because of failing city inspection. A lot of the stores have the buildings foundation run right through the layout and as SRT said there is something wrong with foundation that the city has noticed.
This is one of the only units with a closed ceiling but that has a price to it...3 foundation pillars right in the front, middle and back of the layout.
Looks like its going to be a while before this mall opens officially...
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salsa
Senior Member
Uncle Meat
New Member
A month goes by without even a trace of anyone doing anything in the building. At least open the bloody LCBO !!!
Anyway, a somewhat similar "empty mall" story in the Star this morning:
http://www.thestar.com/business/201...all-suing-developer-canderel-residential.html
Anyway, a somewhat similar "empty mall" story in the Star this morning:
http://www.thestar.com/business/201...all-suing-developer-canderel-residential.html
Uncle Meat
New Member
From the above article:
"To be successful, retailers at the base of condos need high daytime pedestrian traffic — office workers in the case of businesses in the downtown core, including those located along the underground PATH system — or travelers, as in the case of Union Station."
"To be successful, retailers at the base of condos need high daytime pedestrian traffic — office workers in the case of businesses in the downtown core, including those located along the underground PATH system — or travelers, as in the case of Union Station."
Bill123
Active Member
Yea auras pretty bad, if they are successful with that lawsuit who knows if we will see anymore condo malls. Mixed use usually does not do well however they sell like hotcakes. I agree that the lawsuit is baseless but still feel bad for the tenants at aura. A whole new risk factor has to now be taken into consideration by the builder of mixed use condos and that is the possibility of getting sued even after delivering the unit up to standards.
wan28018
New Member
Anyone familiar with "Section 37 Contribution" ?
I just received the Final statement of Adjustment and there it shows the Section 37 with charge amount of whooping $16k.
And now my closing cost is $16k more than what I expected and sums up to around 9% of total value of sale price.
I just received the Final statement of Adjustment and there it shows the Section 37 with charge amount of whooping $16k.
And now my closing cost is $16k more than what I expected and sums up to around 9% of total value of sale price.
Sally Chan
New Member
Section 37 of the planning act is a community benefits agreement between the city and the developer. If the developer wants to build something that deviates from the zoning regulations for a particular site, the developer may voluntarily agree to provide community benefits in cash or amenities in exchange for approval. The purpose of section 37 is to offset the problems caused by changes to a neighbourhood when different kinds of developments are added to it, such as to compensate for increased traffic, population, or changes to the streetscape a new development brings. Section 37 funds are generally spent in the communities where the development occurs.
Developers normally have provisions that are buried in the Agreement of Purchase and Sale, whereby the developer passes on the Section 37 cost by charging purchasers their proportionate share on the Final Statement of Adjustments. A new condo buyer can find themselves in a situation where the final closing costs balloon to upwards of 30K or more. New condo buyers are often not aware of the additional cost they will face on closing in addition to legal fees, disbursements, and land transfer taxes. These costs include Section 37 Contribution, Parks Levy, and Development and Education Charges. These cost alone can add 30K or more to the final purchase price of your home and should be taken into consideration when signing the Agreement of Purchase and Sale.
Developers normally have provisions that are buried in the Agreement of Purchase and Sale, whereby the developer passes on the Section 37 cost by charging purchasers their proportionate share on the Final Statement of Adjustments. A new condo buyer can find themselves in a situation where the final closing costs balloon to upwards of 30K or more. New condo buyers are often not aware of the additional cost they will face on closing in addition to legal fees, disbursements, and land transfer taxes. These costs include Section 37 Contribution, Parks Levy, and Development and Education Charges. These cost alone can add 30K or more to the final purchase price of your home and should be taken into consideration when signing the Agreement of Purchase and Sale.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
At EmeraldPark, Which tower (east or west tower) are you in and on which floor? In addition, what was the cost of your residential condo unit VS the average cost at EmeraldPark?
I'm assuming you're a residential condo unit owner. Are the retail and office condo buyer seeing similar Section 37 addition to their cost?
You should use google to figure out exactly what Section 37 community benefits really pay for,.... and no I wouldn't classify Section 37 as voluntary,... developer either agree to pay it and build,... or don't pay it and don't build,..... These types of fees (Section 37, 42 & 45 fees) are basically charged for all new developments and renovations,..... even for single residential houses. Section 42 & 45 (Road, transit, infrastructure) are more formula-fixed rate oriented,... whereas Section 37 (Parks, arts, etc,..) are more variable cost,.... But with larger complicated developments like EmeraldPark where zoning changes, density, height issues, etc,... Section 37 community benefits are charged at a higher rate,... depending on the negotiating skill of the councillor,... and about 5-10% would be typical. Some smaller midrise developments in downtown gets dinged closer to 15%.
Search Section 37 to see what it is. Actually, if you face west, just look out the window,.... see the community centre being built at Lansing United Church,.... you're paying for that through Section 37!
Read the Final Report from 2010 (2 years after they started selling units,.... getting Section 37 sticker shock is a benefit of developer selling units before they even have permission to build!) to see what Section 37 Community Benefits EmeraldPark is paying for:
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2010/ny/bgrd/backgroundfile-29871.pdf
If you want to figure out the exact dollar amount, then go to City Planning at North York Civic Centre and inquire with the Planner - Carla is Planner now responsible for EmeraldPark. Better yet, ask to look through the files,.... they have a little office for you to use,... and look for all the Section 37 cheques - this way you could figure out if you're being overcharged by developer.
In those files, there should also be a cheque with the dollar amount that EmeraldPark developer gave to the city for Lansing United Church Community Centre design/construction costs. As I recall, by the time it was tranfered from city to church it was around $7million (look up my old post from around 2013 for more accurate dollar amount).
Once you figure out the exact cost of all the Section 37 Community benefits,.... then divide by number of units (565 original units + 18 new West Tower units added when developer chopped off ceiling height to squeeze in 2 more floors of condo within the overall total height city allowed them to build),..... estimate the value of your unit VS the average at EmeraldPark,.... and you'll figure out roughly how much you're being overcharged. I find it interesting most Section 37 fees are paid out in 2010 and 2011, before city would give building permits,.... but condo owners get charged now,... meaning you're probably also paying for 5 years of interest on that amount!
I'm assuming you're a residential condo unit owner. Are the retail and office condo buyer seeing similar Section 37 addition to their cost?
You should use google to figure out exactly what Section 37 community benefits really pay for,.... and no I wouldn't classify Section 37 as voluntary,... developer either agree to pay it and build,... or don't pay it and don't build,..... These types of fees (Section 37, 42 & 45 fees) are basically charged for all new developments and renovations,..... even for single residential houses. Section 42 & 45 (Road, transit, infrastructure) are more formula-fixed rate oriented,... whereas Section 37 (Parks, arts, etc,..) are more variable cost,.... But with larger complicated developments like EmeraldPark where zoning changes, density, height issues, etc,... Section 37 community benefits are charged at a higher rate,... depending on the negotiating skill of the councillor,... and about 5-10% would be typical. Some smaller midrise developments in downtown gets dinged closer to 15%.
Search Section 37 to see what it is. Actually, if you face west, just look out the window,.... see the community centre being built at Lansing United Church,.... you're paying for that through Section 37!
Read the Final Report from 2010 (2 years after they started selling units,.... getting Section 37 sticker shock is a benefit of developer selling units before they even have permission to build!) to see what Section 37 Community Benefits EmeraldPark is paying for:
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2010/ny/bgrd/backgroundfile-29871.pdf
If you want to figure out the exact dollar amount, then go to City Planning at North York Civic Centre and inquire with the Planner - Carla is Planner now responsible for EmeraldPark. Better yet, ask to look through the files,.... they have a little office for you to use,... and look for all the Section 37 cheques - this way you could figure out if you're being overcharged by developer.
In those files, there should also be a cheque with the dollar amount that EmeraldPark developer gave to the city for Lansing United Church Community Centre design/construction costs. As I recall, by the time it was tranfered from city to church it was around $7million (look up my old post from around 2013 for more accurate dollar amount).
Once you figure out the exact cost of all the Section 37 Community benefits,.... then divide by number of units (565 original units + 18 new West Tower units added when developer chopped off ceiling height to squeeze in 2 more floors of condo within the overall total height city allowed them to build),..... estimate the value of your unit VS the average at EmeraldPark,.... and you'll figure out roughly how much you're being overcharged. I find it interesting most Section 37 fees are paid out in 2010 and 2011, before city would give building permits,.... but condo owners get charged now,... meaning you're probably also paying for 5 years of interest on that amount!
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Does these Pacific Mall like retail condo units sell like hotcake throughout the city???? At World On Yonge, Aura, Splendid China Mall, etc,... In 2008 or 2009 these first floor Pacific Mall type retail stores sold like hotcake to Chinese store owners/investors at EmeraldPark when it was leaked that Loblaw's T&T would be the anchor tenant on second floor,.... and the developer was promising opening in 2011! Heck, they didn't even get city approval until 2010,... and started digging-construction in 2011!!! So developer promised date was changed from 2011 to 2013,.... and when developer couldn't keep 2013 promised date delivery and changed it to 2015, Loblaw's T&T bailed,... clearly, this developer was negligent in promising unrealistic delivery dates!,... and if the Pacific Mall type retail condo owners/investors were to pursue a class action suit against the developer like at Aura,... the consistent history of misleading promise delivery dates would come into play in addition to the poor quality build due to all the cut corners and costs,...
The problem isn't mixed use condo development, per say. For City Planning, mixed use (residential condo with office and retail) development is more desirable than all condo development especially for developments along major arterial roads with strong transit lines and more so closer to major intersections,... and in some areas like North York Centre, it seems the only way for City Planning to get any office development in the area in the last 20 years (a-la Menkes Ultima's TransAmerica/Aegon building, Tridel HullmarkCentre office condos, EmeraldPark 1 floor of office condos).
Developer use ground level retail space as a "benefit" to sell development to locals and thus lower locals' demand for real community benefits. But retail space actually give developer revenue & profit, thus it benefit developer more! VS a real community benefit like more parkland, cash donation, public realm space, etc,... which becomes sunk cost to developer with no revenue generation.
Developer maximize profit on ground floor by putting in retail space. But the issue is what type of retail space!,... if Developer put in small Pacific Mall type retail space to sell (as Bazis has done with EmeraldPark), then they're clearly looking for the big quick buck,... a wham-bang-thank-you-mam,.... and to leave this project with no lasting relations,... thus, the developer's objective become to maximize their profit by cutting costs and corners (ie quality and material of build),... as we've seen at EmeraldPark).
But, let's say the developer actually build the retail space not for sale,... but for themselves to rent/lease out! Then of course, it'll be in the developer's best interest to produce a much better quality product,... a mall with better pedestrian foot traffic design. A stone throw away from EmeraldPark is RioCan's SheppardCentre which is about to start a major mall renovation soon,... I'll bet RioCan will do a much better quality build of their retail mall than Bazis did at EmeraldPark,... why? Because RioCan is re-building SheppardCentre mall for themselves (the property owner, now and in the future) to rent/lease out long term,.... if RioCan cut cost and corners at SheppardCentre, RioCan will just be screwing themselves!!!
The exact same thing applies to the residential condo units,... at EmeraldPark, Bazis sold the residential condo units as luxury units at premium prices,.... luxury units should have 10 feet ceiling,.. but only penthouse does, the rest are 9 feet,... but most of West Tower is chopped down to just over 8 feet ceiling (hey, buyers brought units based on per square feet of floorspace not cubic feet of volume!) as Bazis chopped ceiling height so they could squeeze in (not one but) two extra floors of residential condos to sell!!!! That gives a strong indication of the corners cut and extreme this developer will go to maximize their profits. All the residential condo units at SheppardCentre new condo tower will be rentals,.... owned by RioCan who will rent them out,... and thus, the material and build quaility will be much better! RioCan surely won't be cutting corners, otherwise they'll just be screwing themself!!!
Note: One benefit of living in residential condo building with retail space that's owned by the building developer/management and is rented/leased out is it also generate revenue for the condo building and thus, lowers the overall cost of maintence fees paid for by residential condo owners.
Bill123
Active Member
As if building a condo there and raising the nearby property prices wasn't enough "contribution to the community" already they find another excuse to have the builder charge us more. I'm not sure if retail is going to be charged but my experience so far with this project tells me to expect the unexpected and to assume the worst. We expected retail tmi to be similar to residential but as you said retail pays more tmi...about 12 times more.
Only residential has begun final closing. There is no clue when retail final closing will begin. Oh yea I also heard that Metro is actually going to open there in spring.
Well mixed use sell out always during pre-construction. However the ones who buy these small stores are usually small time speculators and first time commercial buyers who think buying commercial is just like buying residential. You should always invest in something you understand and many buyers of these small units failed to do that.
I think they have incentive to do an OK job in the retail space since 1 sq ft of retail generates 12x the tmi of 1 sq ft of a residential place. And this is not even after final closing yet. After final closing tmi usually goes up 50% a year for 1-2 years.
I'm noticing more and more landlords deciding to open the units themselves instead of renting them out. This is similar to Aura but I don't think it will fail that hard.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
I would really beg to differ that the high density development in North York Centre increases the property value for the residential houses in the area,.... the property value of residential houses in the area tends to increase higher than the average due to location close to Yonge (Toronto's main street with Yonge Subway Line) and Highway 401 (families like the option of close proximity to subway stations and highway,... this is highly valued especially in Toronto where the city tends to be incompetent in building enough of both!),.... and of course the good local schools, better on west side of Yonge and hence the higher property valuation,.... In addition, the generally larger lot size hosting post-war bungalows ideal to be converted to McMansions also makes this area a nice landing spot for rich imigrants.
Now from a house dweller perspective, when I first moved here (I'm a few streets south of EmeraldPark,... so close Emerald Park towers over my backyard!) about 25 years ago, the closest high density residential condos are those at apartment buildings at SheppardCentre. There wasn't a single condo building in the Avondale Community (westside of Yonge Street between Sheppard and 401) VS now where there's about 20 condo towers! Most of them as part of the 60+ residential condo towers thats been added to North York Secondary Plan area (along Yonge corridor between 401 to Finch Hydro corridor) since 1998 amalgamation of Toronto.
Now keep in mind at each condo tower site, when that land went from hosting single residential houses to residential condo towers the population density increased by about 50 times more people!,... and that's for your standard North York 100m 30 storey condo tower,... now that height limit is gone! That brings a lot more people into the area:
- a lot more cars on already congested roads (area is consistently at or near top of top ten worst traffic congestion area in city)
- a lot more fellow transit users crowding the Yonge subway line
- a lot more kids in already overcrowded schools where some will have to be bused out, etc,...
- other infrastructure like water and sewage also get maxed out (in heavy rainfall its not condo residents that have to worry about sewage backup flooding their basement!)
- more crowded local sidewalks/parks/libraries/community centres (stuff city is responsible for),....
With each new condo tower, the people that already live in the area in house or condo get squeezed out more and are forced to share what little local public resources and infrastructure with more people,... thus, they need to be compensated in someway and that's where Section 37 community benefits come in,.... say with the 583 new condo units at EmeraldPark with average of 2.5 people per unit bringing in 1457 more residents to local area means over 500 additional cars on the road, over 500 daily transit users on the already over crowded Yonge Subway line, a few hundred more kids into the local school system, etc,.... that makes it tougher for people that already live here,.... so these people get compensated with Section 37 community benefits,... which in this case includes a new community centre at Lansing United Church,.... sure some of the locals will never use it and some will use it more frequently,.... but it provides another beneficial public infrastructure in the local community that's accessible to all. And that's what Section 37 is for,... whether it's for more parkland, trees, arts, public realm, etc,... it's to somehow benefit the community in general.
Personally, I think Section 37 is NOT enough! If you look at the amount of local parkspace which is one part Section 37 is responsible for,.... the amount of local parkspace per capita in North York Centre is amongst the lowest in the entire city. Why? Local parkspace per capita is the area of the local park divided by the number of local residents within a 1km radius of that park,... and the number of local residents have increased significantly due to the number of new high density developments. Sure some new high density developments come with Section 37 claus for new public realm/parkspace but that new parkspace doesn't even come close to the amount of parkspace required to be adequate.
Without any doubt,... Most of the long time residential house owners would perfer the area 25 years ago VS today! Mainly due to all the traffic gridlock problems of today. Keep in mind back then there was already retail and restaurants all along Yonge Street and there was much more of a balance between office and residential development in North York Centre.
When I first moved in here 25 years ago, I don't recall any other Chinese family on my street,... These days, I'm a dime a dozen around here!,... heck now I usually see more Asians than non-Asians along Yonge Street,.... Though the single residential houses still have more "old stock" Canadians as former PrimeMinister Harper calls them (I guess that's one reason why he's now former PrimeMinister),..... Even more significantly, all those high density condo developments mostly houses Koreans, Chinese, Persians, etc,... (those are the biggest ethnic groups in Ward 23 Willowdale now),... and as a consequence the old Yonge Street retails and restaurants that used to have Fish&Chips, greasy spoon burgers & fries joints, English Pubs, Golden Griddle pancake, donut-coffee shops, sandwich shops, ice cream stores, Keg steaks, etc,... (heck, their idea of ethnic food was a Chinese Chop Suey place - Hint: Real Chinese people don't eat Chop Suey nor any place that has fortune cookies!),.... are being squeezed out in favour of more ethnic mix of Asian-Fusion restaurants, K-Pop haircut places, Asian bakeries, Korean mini-supermarkets, Japanese sake bars, Korean Pork Bone Soup places, Japanese snack places, Persian BBQ shish kabob grill places, sushi restaurants, Badminton shop, Northern Chinese Dumpling shop, Karaoke bars, ramen noodle places, vietnamese pho soup, Taiwanese bubble tea hang outs, etc,.... and now the first floor retail level at EmeraldPark appears to be mainly Chinese - a mini Pacific Mall or Chinatown if a Chinese grocer ever gets here! If 25 years ago, someone told me all this Asian retail stuff would be happening along the Yonge corridor in North York - I'd be rolling on the ground laughing my #%@* ass off!!!,... at the stupid crap I'm hearing,... back then there was only a handful of Korean stores and restaurants along Spring Garden Ave, and some of them weren't even Korean - they were Chinese pretending to cook Korean food!
I tend to be somewhat be involved in local community issues and local politics,... but I generally don't see many other people from ethnic groups involved which is disappointing,... it means it'll be more difficult to get ethnic input into real changes in our area,... one area of interest for the retailers of EmeraldPark is the formation of the North York - Yonge Street Business Improvement Area which the councillors office has been trying to help set up,....
As for Metro coming back/staying,... I'll believe it when I see it! A Metro Spring opening is next to impossible since it'll take about 4-6 months just to convert that 2nd floor shell into a supermarket,... and I don't even see anybody work there now. In addition beside some of the other local Metro stores,.... the NewtonBrook plaza (southwest of Yonge & Cummer) redevelopment seems to be going through with 4-5 new condo towers and the FoodBasics there will be rebuilt,... but rebuilt as what? FoodBasics at a new condo complex???? Or will Metro (who owns FoodBasics) be putting in a new Metro store,.... or maybe an Adonis since that area has more Persians,....
Bill123
Active Member
It's weird how the increase in property taxes from these new condos don't get put towards whatever section 37 goes to but I get your point. Also low Canadian dollar, 3 billion dollar budget deficit forecast, oil jobs gone... the government needs money!!!
Yea I'm quite skeptical too about them opening there again however this is recent news. I don't think they will take several months to renovate since they have huge in-house construction teams.
Not a lot of ethnic groups participate in local politics since they don't speak English very well and they come from non-democratic or corrupt countries where its a waste of time to participate in local politics. Give it 1-2 generations.
Hmm Business Improvement Area? I'll look into it, sounds interesting.
About Newtonbrook since subway terminates at Finch if they try to build a condo mall there it might end up just like World-On-Yonge. They are looking to expand the Yonge subway all the way to Richmond Hill but thats in at least 8 years time. I've heard its being built by a very reputable firm though.
Its amazing what can happen in 25 years!