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Agreed. But it was more insidious than that. The Westfield Group was in the background, not to mention various parties vying for an NFL franchise. Doug Ford's plan was all about getting large-scale retail, likely in the form of flood-proofed big box with surface parking, built in the Portlands, with the proceeds potentially helping fund a stadium. The ferris wheel/monorail was all window-dressing to distract from an underwhelming, suburban-style development and the fact that a lot of moneyed interest were keen to benefit from the retail and possible NFL franchise. Dougie was making deals behind the scenes to rapidly develop with the Portlands with mostly low-cost/high-profit commercial development.

I think that collectively we forget how awful it truly was, and all we remember was the crazy ferris wheel idea.

All really great points and very important to resurface. I lived in London, UK during the opening of a massive Westfield redevelopment in East London (which has now been replicated elsewhere in East London), and it's big box in the worst way. Very glad we avoided that minefield in the Portlands.
 
It just hit me! Six months would cover over a lot of existing popular events that already draw million of tourists if you add them all up. From Caribana to Taste of the Danforth and CNE to TIFF and all the events in between would easily filter through the World Expo, guaranteeing an success.

Hahahaha... that's awesome! You're being sarcastic, right? Uhhh... right?
 
Hahahaha... that's awesome! You're being sarcastic, right? Uhhh... right?
I think he's being appropriately cynical. Politicians can blow their brains out on unnecessary spending, knowing that they can call it a 'success' based on the tourists we would have welcomed regardless.

The World's Fair model is stupid - lots of wasted temporary spending. They should use it as an excuse to revitalize the Ex grounds / Ontario Place, or they should use it as an incubator for permanent growth in the Portlands. In other words, get participating countries to help design mixed-use facilities that will stay up after the event ends.

Or better yet, don't bid on it at all.
 
Expos can actually be good investments and have positive returns not only for the city but also the citizens.

Unlike the Olympics which are just 2 week circuses that turn a city into an armed camp and have tickets so expensive that the average person who is paying the cost of the Olympics will never get to see even one event, Expos are events that everyone can enjoy.

The city reaps large investment dollars from the private sector and largess for infrastructure from the province and feds. Being 6 month events, all citizens can enjoy the festivities regardless of their financial situation and they tend to bring a far more diverse crowd in than the Olympics. You also don't get the dreaded security scene that has turned the Olympics into a sporting event held at a military base and the complete shut down of the city for three weeks.

The issue is what to do AFTER the games. This is where Vancouver REALLY blew it. Many Vancouverites say that the change in the city's culture from hippie/easy going to a money hungry self centered one all started with Expo 86. I visited Vancouver for 3 months before the Expo and came back 3 years after Expo and the city seemed completely different in it's mentality and I remember mentioning it to people and they all said the same thing...........it was a result of Expo'86 and long time citizens still refer to that event being a changing moment in the city's character.

Bennett {the Premier at the time} wanted to develop the Expo lands after the games so he effectively gave them away to a Hong Kong investor and told him to develop it and sell to anyone who wants them..............enough said. In Vancouver, the party was great but the city is still coping with the hangover with a city obsessed with real estate and it's image.

If Toronto avoided that horrid mistake which has devastated the liveability and character of Vancouver they could be a great success. Expos have lost much of their luster over the years but if Toronto was to throw caution to the wind and go for the most innovative and enticing Expo of the new century, Toronto will be the gold standard of Expos for the 21st century just as Montreal was for the 20th.
 
Expos can actually be good investments and have positive returns not only for the city but also the citizens.

Unlike the Olympics which are just 2 week circuses that turn a city into an armed camp and have tickets so expensive that the average person who is paying the cost of the Olympics will never get to see even one event, Expos are events that everyone can enjoy.

The city reaps large investment dollars from the private sector and largess for infrastructure from the province and feds. Being 6 month events, all citizens can enjoy the festivities regardless of their financial situation and they tend to bring a far more diverse crowd in than the Olympics. You also don't get the dreaded security scene that has turned the Olympics into a sporting event held at a military base and the complete shut down of the city for three weeks.

The issue is what to do AFTER the games. This is where Vancouver REALLY blew it. Many Vancouverites say that the change in the city's culture from hippie/easy going to a money hungry self centered one all started with Expo 86. I visited Vancouver for 3 months before the Expo and came back 3 years after Expo and the city seemed completely different in it's mentality and I remember mentioning it to people and they all said the same thing...........it was a result of Expo'86 and long time citizens still refer to that event being a changing moment in the city's character.

Bennett {the Premier at the time} wanted to develop the Expo lands after the games so he effectively gave them away to a Hong Kong investor and told him to develop it and sell to anyone who wants them..............enough said. In Vancouver, the party was great but the city is still coping with the hangover with a city obsessed with real estate and it's image.

If Toronto avoided that horrid mistake which has devastated the liveability and character of Vancouver they could be a great success. Expos have lost much of their luster over the years but if Toronto was to throw caution to the wind and go for the most innovative and enticing Expo of the new century, Toronto will be the gold standard of Expos for the 21st century just as Montreal was for the 20th.
Name any three of the expo sites since 86, without looking it up. Nobody cares about expo other than the domestic market, where tourist dollars are just being diverted from other domestic spend.
 
Expo 67 was open in Montreal from April 29, 1967 to October 29, 1967.

This chart shows the climate in Montreal:
Montreal.png


Compare with Toronto's climate:
Toronto.png


We might be able to endure a few warm days in April and October.
 
I generally trust Waterfront Toronto to develop the Portlands properly.

I worry that the Expo would damage Waterfront Toronto's ability to take on the Portlands development.

Without an Expo or some other external commitment, I have very little confidence that there will be funding or political will to redevelop the Portlands anytime soon.
 
Wondering if UPX is here to stay, could it be extended southeast to the Portlands? Specifically, Expo 2025?
 
Expos can actually be good investments and have positive returns not only for the city but also the citizens.

Unlike the Olympics which are just 2 week circuses that turn a city into an armed camp and have tickets so expensive that the average person who is paying the cost of the Olympics will never get to see even one event, Expos are events that everyone can enjoy.

But expensive tickets and two week circuses is what we had with the PanAm's. And they sold that as the greatest success story, and that's where the problems starts, the PanAm games where skewed to look successful to justify their costs, otherwise hosting the Olympics would be even a greater success.


The city reaps large investment dollars from the private sector and largess for infrastructure from the province and feds. Being 6 month events, all citizens can enjoy the festivities regardless of their financial situation and they tend to bring a far more diverse crowd in than the Olympics. You also don't get the dreaded security scene that has turned the Olympics into a sporting event held at a military base and the complete shut down of the city for three weeks.

It still costs to visit an Expo. It's operates like the CNE, you have to pay to get in, pay to visit some events, pay for exclusive only food that costs twice the price, and so on and so forth. So if you don't have the money to begin with to drop, then its not worth visiting.

Security is still high at a Expo, and like the Olympics, its costs are a major factor in its funding. Just remember that a World Expo is just like the Olympics, minus the sporting events....and popularity.

All major hosting events promise large investments from the province, feds and private sectors as the core benefit, and you do need the province and the federal government on board if you want to submit any major bid because they're the only one's with the deep pockets that can afford building the venues.

However, like the hosting the Olympics, most venues will be torn down or abandoned unless heavily subsided as it was the with the PanAm venues that have an 20 year legacy fund to off set the operating costs, but after than fund is depleted, they too will see the wreaking ball.

The issue is what to do AFTER the games. This is where Vancouver REALLY blew it. Many Vancouverites say that the change in the city's culture from hippie/easy going to a money hungry self centered one all started with Expo 86. I visited Vancouver for 3 months before the Expo and came back 3 years after Expo and the city seemed completely different in it's mentality and I remember mentioning it to people and they all said the same thing...........it was a result of Expo'86 and long time citizens still refer to that event being a changing moment in the city's character.

Bennett {the Premier at the time} wanted to develop the Expo lands after the games so he effectively gave them away to a Hong Kong investor and told him to develop it and sell to anyone who wants them..............enough said. In Vancouver, the party was great but the city is still coping with the hangover with a city obsessed with real estate and it's image.

If Toronto avoided that horrid mistake which has devastated the liveability and character of Vancouver they could be a great success. Expos have lost much of their luster over the years but if Toronto was to throw caution to the wind and go for the most innovative and enticing Expo of the new century, Toronto will be the gold standard of Expos for the 21st century just as Montreal was for the 20th.

We're already a city obsessed with real estate and image, if anything we've been in quite competition with Vancouver in terms of overprice condo units for sometime now. All hosting the World Expo will give us is another LRT line, some nice parks between high priced condo towers and venues that can be converted into sporting venues or convention hall.
 
I generally trust Waterfront Toronto to develop the Portlands properly.

I worry that the Expo would damage Waterfront Toronto's ability to take on the Portlands development.

Any expo-related development of the Portlands would need to be headed by Waterfront Toronto in my opinion. All permanent buildings must be congruent with the original Portlands plan, and anything else should be temporary structures. The Pan AM developments are successful, so I'm hopeful Expo can be of similar success.

That's said, I don't believe Expo would deliver to our city anything we couldn't achieve without it. So I remain generally opposed to the idea.
 
Without an Expo or some other external commitment, I have very little confidence that there will be funding or political will to redevelop the Portlands anytime soon.

I'm fairly confident in the Portlands redevelopment. There's substantial developer interest, and Waterfront Toronto is quite competent at achieving our waterfront goals. The only thing I have a big doubt about is the arrival of the East Bayfront LRT.
 

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