It sounds like the Mirvish Gallery is still going to be built, so I'm not sure where that factors into your loss calculation.

The 60,000 sqft purpose-built Color-Field Mirvish Gallery died with with the original proposal. If you have info suggesting otherwise, I'm all ears. Even that 9,000 sqft compromise on the roof of the white warehouse looks to be in question.



As for the cloud podium, I'm genuinely surprised at your optimism that something even remotely resembling the cloud podium in early renders would ever have been built.

They all laughed at Hershey and his chocolate bar too.
 
David Mirvish is on record pointing this out himself on several occasions.

He is also on record saying this:

“It’s not a watered down version of this,†said Mr. Mirvish, gesturing to a model of the original design. “I actually like this project even better. What it has that the other didn’t have is this theatre [the Princess of Wales] that I put several years of my life into building. I’m glad to have that.â€
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/05/27/david-mirvish-to-keep-princess-of-wales-theatre-in-revised-plans-for-king-west-condo-towers/


While it appears you seem to think you know more about his business empire than he does, I'm apt to side with Mirvish.

Yup.

Let's hope he is planning something even more spectacular for his gallery, that his cooperation here will work in his favour. Preserving the POW and gaining a stand-alone gallery would be the best possible outcome.
 
^ Say what you like, there is no way a small 9,000 square foot temporary gallery can possibly compare to what he envisioned originally. What it likely means is his art works will not have a permanent home in Toronto, we will not have an outstanding 60,000 square foot, world renown gallery of contemporary art,

His artworks art will float around the world to various galleries - including ours occasionally - but it won't call Toronto home, nor potentially thousands of pieces of contemporary. art that could have called Toronto home. Personally I think that was a huge loss.
 
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It's not like residential homes in the suburbs that actually do pop up like weeds and take only a few months to build once they get building permits haha. Concrete and steel construction does take far longer than wood frame, obviously. But a 92 storey wood frame apt would be cool to see fly up.
Even wood frame houses in the suburbs can take years to plan before the first permit is issued. Even after approval all the detailed engineering can take a year or two all by itself. A megaproject like the Mirvish towers takes even longer.
 
I think Mr. Mirvish's view of the Toronto theatre scene is about what is best for Mirvish, not so much what is best for Toronto. I suspect Dancap (RIP) would agree with that.
 
He is also on record saying this:

“It’s not a watered down version of this,” said Mr. Mirvish, gesturing to a model of the original design. “I actually like this project even better. What it has that the other didn’t have is this theatre [the Princess of Wales] that I put several years of my life into building. I’m glad to have that.”

What were you expecting him to say...he's being positive about moving forward. But do you honestly believe he's happier that his planned gallery is no longer part of the project? Of course not....it's his legacy.




Let's hope he is planning something even more spectacular for his gallery

I also hope he hasn't given up on it. I think there's probably an even greater idea waiting to be implemented. It just won't have anything to do with this project. He was hoping to leave a legacy of Gehry buildings and his art gallery in one fell swoop...now he'll just have to do them separately...that's all. I don't see that as an insurmountable problem for a guy like Mirvish.
 
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I think Mr. Mirvish's view of the Toronto theatre scene is about what is best for Mirvish, not so much what is best for Toronto.

But isn't that the same for any business that the Toronto economy relies on? Running a successful business is whats good for the city...no?

That said, while Mirvish sells a hell of a lot of tickets, his productions are just imported American musicals that play every city. And it looks like the days of busloads of out-of-town retirees and the vanishing American tourist coming in to see Cats is behind us. McD's sells a lot more food than Susur Lee does, but who are we more proud of...the more creative homegrown talent, or the big imported corporate entity?

That's one reason I don't lament the loss of POW....it's really just a Walmart for theatre (structurally it's nothing more than a warehouse too, albeit with a nice interior). Toronto's real theatre talent is in the much smaller productions...and worth supporting. I'm not knocking Mirvish...we need that big commercial stuff to support the overall theatre scene in Toronto. Although he has ventured into more edgy territory with his Off-Mirvish series.

The loss of Livent was a bigger blow to Toronto's theatre scene than the POW Theatre. Drabinsky may have been a crook, but he didn't import productions...he created them. I hears a rumour Drabinsky may be re-entering the theatre business?????
 
...while Mirvish sells a hell of a lot of tickets, his productions are just imported American musicals that play every city [...] McD's sells a lot more food than Susur Lee does, but who are we more proud of...the more creative homegrown talent, or the big imported corporate entity?

There's room for both. For a smaller city we've been lucky in Toronto. The Mirvishes have a long tradition of bringing the best of the world's commercial theatre here (i.e. Broadway and West End). This has always been their niche, and it's not a bad thing because we may never have had access to many of these popular and sometimes iconic shows/performers without Mirvish (père and fils). Just recently there were packed houses to see Angela Landsbury in likely her final stage performance/tour. Pretty special!

It's true that in 80s and 90s they did produce local versions of sit-down productions very successfully (Les Miserables, Miss Saigon, Mamma Mia, Lion King among others) and this generated a talent pool in Toronto that was very impressive.

That's one reason I don't lament the loss of POW....it's really just a Walmart for theatre (structurally it's nothing more than a warehouse too, albeit with a nice interior). Toronto's real theatre talent is in the much smaller productions...and worth supporting. I'm not knocking Mirvish...we need that big commercial stuff to support the overall theatre scene in Toronto. Although he has ventured into more edgy territory with his Off-Mirvish series.

Often the 'big commercial stuff' begin as smaller productions, one feeds the other (i.e. The Drowsy Chaperone as a Toronto example, or Kim's Convenience). A vibrant arts scene needs the incubators but also needs the venues/producers that allow these projects to develop and grow, artistically and commercially. This is commercial theatre after all, not state-funded/paid for by taxpayers. Both are great but really which one is healthier for the economy? Mirvish has theatres of differing sizes for a reason, it allows him to stage a broad range of shows from the epic to the intimate, or extend runs by moving productions from larger houses to smaller ones. It provides enormous flexibility for him.

... but really isn't it just a sin to bulldoze a performing arts venue? Once it's gone from the arts infrastructure it's gone and very likely not to be replaced. Theatres are enormously expensive and most shows have difficulty recouping their normal investments never mind funding anything such as this. There's a reason why we don't see many private commercial theatres being built these day. All the while it stands there is potential for magic, and how knows what or who will play here next year, ten years from now, fifty:

And it looks like the days of busloads of out-of-town retirees and the vanishing American tourist coming in to see Cats is behind us.

We can't be short-sighted about these things. Broadway was written off as dead in the 1970s until Chorus Line opened and revived the genre. Who knows what the declining Canadian dollar will do for tourism this year and onwards? Back in the 80s and 90s they were scrambling for theatres big enough to accommodate the shows. These things come and go in cycles... and who knows when the next Drabinsky will emerge? Again, once that valuable theatre infrastructure is gone it is likely gone for good.

I'm disappointed for the gallery too. It's somewhat of a Sophie's Choice for anyone who loves the arts, knowing how hard these things struggle. I remain optimistic in Mirvish though. If his resolve/vision to house his collection crumbles so easily it likely wasn't that strong or firm to start with... but i believe it is, and i hope that he is re-imagining the concept and will repackage it into something even more amazing, and something that will add further to the arts infrastructure rather that come at a cost to it.
 
But isn't that the same for any business that the Toronto economy relies on? Running a successful business is whats good for the city...no?

That said, while Mirvish sells a hell of a lot of tickets, his productions are just imported American musicals that play every city. And it looks like the days of busloads of out-of-town retirees and the vanishing American tourist coming in to see Cats is behind us. McD's sells a lot more food than Susur Lee does, but who are we more proud of...the more creative homegrown talent, or the big imported corporate entity?

That's one reason I don't lament the loss of POW....it's really just a Walmart for theatre (structurally it's nothing more than a warehouse too, albeit with a nice interior). Toronto's real theatre talent is in the much smaller productions...and worth supporting. I'm not knocking Mirvish...we need that big commercial stuff to support the overall theatre scene in Toronto. Although he has ventured into more edgy territory with his Off-Mirvish series.

The loss of Livent was a bigger blow to Toronto's theatre scene than the POW Theatre. Drabinsky may have been a crook, but he didn't import productions...he created them. I hears a rumour Drabinsky may be re-entering the theatre business?????

What I am responding to is the suggestion that if David Mirvish says the Toronto theatre scene does not need the POW to support the theatre scene, then he should know. But while Mirvish might not have needed the POW, that was after he went out of his way to ensure that Dancap didn't get the Canon Theatre. The inability to acquire its own theatre was a major factor in Dancap's premature demise.
 
But isn't that the same for any business that the Toronto economy relies on? Running a successful business is whats good for the city...no?

No, because that's a huge oversimplification. There are all sorts of moves business makes that are not in the best interests of the city at large.
 
No, because that's a huge oversimplification. There are all sorts of moves business makes that are not in the best interests of the city at large.


My point was that we are pointing out the obvious in terms of any capitalist venture. In terms of Toronto's live theatre sector, Mirvish has always played a major role in that portion of Toronto's economy. The city benefits from his success, therefore his obligation is to run a successful business.

Considering Mirvish's decades of nothing but positive contributions to putting Toronto on the map in his respective area of expertise, it blows my mind how much we are willing to go out of our way to demonize the guy. And for what...building condos that raise the bar for design and providing serious cultural extras...in a city that does nothing but build condos with usually nothing extra to offer but bland cheap architecture.

The message we are sending out there is clear...bold will bring you nothing but trouble...mediocrity will win the day.
 
My point was that we are pointing out the obvious in terms of any capitalist venture. In terms of Toronto's live theatre sector, Mirvish has always played a major role in that portion of Toronto's economy. The city benefits from his success, therefore his obligation is to run a successful business.

Considering Mirvish's decades of nothing but positive contributions to putting Toronto on the map in his respective area of expertise, it blows my mind how much we are willing to go out of our way to demonize the guy. And for what...building condos that raise the bar for design and providing serious cultural extras...in a city that does nothing but build condos with usually nothing extra to offer but bland cheap architecture.

The message we are sending out there is clear...bold will bring you nothing but trouble...mediocrity will win the day.

I for one am not going out of my way to demonize Mirvish. I'm going out of my way to comment on the beatification of Mirvish. I think the project looks great, all in favour of it. I think the second version is even better and that preservation of the POW is better for Toronto's theatre scene. Pretty straightforward.
 

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