[gristle]

If mega projects like Mirvish-Gehry get us a DRL, then they will have added more to the city than just the project itself.

Getting a better subway would be major win, if it was spurred on from all the development pressure...

There is no guarantee at all that this will occur. To plan on the basis of wishful thinking is a bit senseless.

 

[balenciaga]

Worst case scenario is that the towers are reduced to 50 or 60s in height, in the name of compromise to planning department concerns over height and density, and the heritage buildings are demolished.

don't understand this fear of density and height. what's the difference between a 80s and a 60s anyway, will the additonal 20 storey and its residents kill the neighbourhood?

Toronto is NOT dense. Downtown is NOT dense. Even after all the condos are built and all the people move in, it is still not dense.

Old Toronto has similar land as Paris (100km2) but has 1/3 of the population (750k vs 2.2M), is it dense?
Old Toronto is 50% larger than Manhattan (60km2) and but has less than half the people (1.6M), is it dense?

Yet Paris and Mahanttan are still great cities. Density makes great vibrant cities because by living close to each other, business and ideas get to thrive.
Toronto needs to be a great city. People, look beyond your typical north American style suburban myopia and small mindedness, and give Toronto a chance to shine!!

 

[DKsan]

don't understand this fear of density and height. what's the difference between a 80s and a 60s anyway, will the additonal 20 storey and its residents kill the neighbourhood?

Toronto is NOT dense. Downtown is NOT dense. Even after all the condos are built and all the people move in, it is still not dense.

Old Toronto has similar land as Paris (100km2) but has 1/3 of the population (750k vs 2.2M), is it dense?
Old Toronto is 50% larger than Manhattan (60km2) and but has less than half the people (1.6M), is it dense?

Yet Paris and Mahanttan are still great cities. Density makes great vibrant cities because by living close to each other, business and ideas get to thrive.
Toronto needs to be a great city. People, look beyond your typical north American style suburban myopia and small mindedness, and give Toronto a chance to shine!!

Density in context with the Greater Toronto Area and Canada.

 

[balenciaga]

Density in context with the Greater Toronto Area and Canada.

which is completely meaningless. Canada has about 3 people per sq km. Ontario has about 12. Such a context is 100% meaningless.

This is why I am asking people to look beyond the "typical north American style suburban myopia and small mindedness".

 

[Parkdalian]

"Increase Density!" is also not a magic spell that makes Toronto into New York and Paris. Density causes real problems like increased traffic, noise and pollution and the need for more services like sewage, gas and electricity. To pretend that you shouldn't plan for density and should just put density wherever developers ask for it doesn't make sense. As well, the city has a plan - one you may not agree with - but that shouldn't be changed only because some people get jazzed about big skyscrapers for postcards.

 

[Ramako]

don't understand this fear of density and height. what's the difference between a 80s and a 60s anyway, will the additonal 20 storey and its residents kill the neighbourhood?

Toronto is NOT dense. Downtown is NOT dense. Even after all the condos are built and all the people move in, it is still not dense.

Old Toronto has similar land as Paris (100km2) but has 1/3 of the population (750k vs 2.2M), is it dense?
Old Toronto is 50% larger than Manhattan (60km2) and but has less than half the people (1.6M), is it dense?

Yet Paris and Mahanttan are still great cities. Density makes great vibrant cities because by living close to each other, business and ideas get to thrive.
Toronto needs to be a great city. People, look beyond your typical north American style suburban myopia and small mindedness, and give Toronto a chance to shine!!

Manhattan and Paris also have much more extensive public transit systems than Toronto.

I've become quite jaded on this issue. The fact is that Toronto's municipal government is a reactionary body. It doesn't move to solve problems unless a crisis is already underway. If we suspend high density development downtown in order to wait on our hands until a DRL is complete, we can expect to be waiting for decades, and we'd ultimately be stunting our own growth. We have to start with the increased density first, knowing that the ensuing and ever worsening transit crisis will all but force the government to move forward on a DRL.

 

[adma]

This is why I am asking people to look beyond the "typical north American style suburban myopia and small mindedness".

Just warning you: keep on with this knocks on typical North American style so-and-so in thread after thread, and you'll likely get yourself re-banned...

 

[vz64]

^^ my thought exactly... balenciaga, you got many interesting ideas, but the way you wrap them up and your persistent fault-finding mission to jump up on any topic that dare to praise Toronto and, god forbid, claim Toronto to be a world-class city... Personally, I don't mind it, but it is too repetitive. Re Paris and other city densities in their core--I think the problem is not with the overall density for downtown area, but with its very uneven distribution.

 

[pw20]

^^ my thought exactly... balenciaga, you got many interesting ideas, but the way you wrap them up and your persistent fault-finding mission to jump up on any topic that dare to praise Toronto and, god forbid, claim Toronto to be a world-class city... Personally, I don't mind it, but it is too repetitive. Re Paris and other city densities in their core--I think the problem is not with the overall density for downtown area, but with its very uneven distribution.

Anyone seen AreBe lately? (10 points to anyone who remembers that UT reference).

 

[ptbotrmpfn]

^^ my thought exactly... balenciaga, you got many interesting ideas, but the way you wrap them up and your persistent fault-finding mission to jump up on any topic that dare to praise Toronto and, god forbid, claim Toronto to be a world-class city... Personally, I don't mind it, but it is too repetitive. Re Paris and other city densities in their core--I think the problem is not with the overall density for downtown area, but with its very uneven distribution.

Give it all time the fill ins will come eventually.

 

[isaidso]

Manhattan and Paris also have much more extensive public transit systems than Toronto.

I've become quite jaded on this issue. The fact is that Toronto's municipal government is a reactionary body. It doesn't move to solve problems unless a crisis is already underway. If we suspend high density development downtown in order to wait on our hands until a DRL is complete, we can expect to be waiting for decades, and we'd ultimately be stunting our own growth. We have to start with the increased density first, knowing that the ensuing and ever worsening transit crisis will all but force the government to move forward on a DRL.

+1

Turning down increased density due to a lack of transit would stall growth to a trickle. Transit will only come when they're forced to. They're not pro-active.

 

[3Dementia]

Anyone seen AreBe lately? (10 points to anyone who remembers that UT reference).

Please forward the 10 points asap (+HST). Though AreBe was far less articulate, more transparent... and even more annoying ;-)

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

Please forward the 10 points asap (+HST). Though AreBe was far less articulate, more transparent... and even more annoying ;-)

As an old-timer on this forum I will say that AreBe's legacy lives on *somewhat* when I see the Southcore towers spring up and the term AreBe Centres come to mind, or Dumbass Square, or that crazy, screwball European notion of using rail corridors for rapid-transit, RER-like service...

 

[rpeters]

I agree about the reactionary city hall description, if we don't drive density up the city will continue to build and pay for subways to the boonies (and even other municipalities) like the station at the 407 where there's absolutely no one living. The city only reacts to public shamings in the ny times, the economist just wrote an article about how bad our commute times are and how lame our city council is. Vote people. Or we will continue to be pushed around by the province, the 905ers, and Ottawa.

 

[adma]

As an old-timer on this forum I will say that AreBe's legacy lives on *somewhat* when I see the Southcore towers spring up and the term AreBe Centres come to mind, or Dumbass Square, or that crazy, screwball European notion of using rail corridors for rapid-transit, RER-like service...

I think in balenciaga's case, kkgg7 comes more to mind--though he was more of an "angry Asian" stereotype...