mdrejhon
Senior Member
I think there's possible multiple outcomes, and one of my predictions likely rings true. (sigh)
On RaiseTheHammer:
- Thread starter Kiwi
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TransitBart
Senior Member
This is not the end. It's only the end of the beginning.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The Eglinton West Subway was cancelled in 1995 by Premier Mike Harris (with Doug Ford Sr. as a backbencher). It's replacement, the Eglinton Crosstown LRT, would only begin construction in 2011(with the launch shaft for the TBM near Black Creek Drive). That's a 16 year delay.
Hopefully, the Hamilton LRT will have a shorter start for construction (with the PC's out of government). With no TBM's, it should be completed in a shorter time.
Hopefully, the Hamilton LRT will have a shorter start for construction (with the PC's out of government). With no TBM's, it should be completed in a shorter time.
Amare
Senior Member
Beginning of what, Hamilton City Council dittleling around on whether to give their final approval on ratifying LRT again? I can see the same thing that happened to Brampton happen to Hamilton if the issue ever gets opened up for discussion again.
Let's remember, Hamilton City Council is probably just as dysfunctional (or even worse) than Toronto City Council.
crs1026
Superstar
^Once any of the $1B of promised money is spent on other transit improvements, I see little hope that the project will ever be funded. You can only go to the well so often.
I wonder, though, whether the LRT could be repackaged in a form that the Canadian Infrastructure Bank migh be able to rescue....if Ontario is good for $1B, and Ottawa matched that, could the CIB offer financing on the remainder? One wonders what the actual cost to carry the project might be.
- Paul
I wonder, though, whether the LRT could be repackaged in a form that the Canadian Infrastructure Bank migh be able to rescue....if Ontario is good for $1B, and Ottawa matched that, could the CIB offer financing on the remainder? One wonders what the actual cost to carry the project might be.
- Paul
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I'm hoping for a full reconstruction of King and Main into BRT with a lane reduction across the entire corridor to improve the public realm. I.E. instead of it being 4 lanes wide, it would be 2+Bus Lane, with the extra lane going to extra sidewalk width and street trees, along with an extension of 30 minute GO service from Aldershot to Centennial. Only then, if there is some leftover money, maybe a bit could be spent on widening the 403.
Hamilton has a ton of potential. It's gotta turn this lemon into lemonade.
BRT won't be that bad for Hamilton. It's not like the B-line is super frequent today, with its 15 minute peak frequencies. BRT should allow that to come down to sub 5 minutes, and if you combo that with a vastly improved public realm, I could see it really turning a corner for the city and bringing (hopefully) similar amounts of revitalization and investment. Maybe get electric buses for it so its quieter and smoother like the LRT.
Hamilton has a ton of potential. It's gotta turn this lemon into lemonade.
BRT won't be that bad for Hamilton. It's not like the B-line is super frequent today, with its 15 minute peak frequencies. BRT should allow that to come down to sub 5 minutes, and if you combo that with a vastly improved public realm, I could see it really turning a corner for the city and bringing (hopefully) similar amounts of revitalization and investment. Maybe get electric buses for it so its quieter and smoother like the LRT.
Northern Light
Superstar
The immediate issue here, irrespective of anyone's views on the specifics of the LRT proposal is that governments of all stripes needs to stop cancelling each other's plans.
Every government has an onus upon it to build a reasonable degree of consensus, wherever practical.
Each subsequent government has an obligation to honour same except in the most exceptional of circumstances.
Further, if one were to seriously propose changing course on a major project, one at the very least, must be honest and forthright about the reasoning for said decision.
That this government blatantly lied; and conflated operating and maintenance costs w/capital is truly unacceptable.
I wont' say that such things are unique to the current government; though the blatency of same is surely rare.
But its unconscionable when any party does it; and shouldn't be any different this time either.
To the extent that the more narrow capital project inflation is real; there is no discussion of what mitigation options were considered, if any.
For instance, where the line is contemplated as exclusive ROW, and where there is no legal road or pedestrian crossing, what if rail ballast were substituted for concrete?
If that isn't practical and/or saves very little, so be it. But at least show some thought went into the exercise of canning the project.
Beyond the obvious (Conservatives rarely, if ever, win in lower Hamilton, where the project benefits lie; but often contend in the burbs, where they don't.)
Every government has an onus upon it to build a reasonable degree of consensus, wherever practical.
Each subsequent government has an obligation to honour same except in the most exceptional of circumstances.
Further, if one were to seriously propose changing course on a major project, one at the very least, must be honest and forthright about the reasoning for said decision.
That this government blatantly lied; and conflated operating and maintenance costs w/capital is truly unacceptable.
I wont' say that such things are unique to the current government; though the blatency of same is surely rare.
But its unconscionable when any party does it; and shouldn't be any different this time either.
To the extent that the more narrow capital project inflation is real; there is no discussion of what mitigation options were considered, if any.
For instance, where the line is contemplated as exclusive ROW, and where there is no legal road or pedestrian crossing, what if rail ballast were substituted for concrete?
If that isn't practical and/or saves very little, so be it. But at least show some thought went into the exercise of canning the project.
Beyond the obvious (Conservatives rarely, if ever, win in lower Hamilton, where the project benefits lie; but often contend in the burbs, where they don't.)
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gibsonm
Active Member
Canceling the Hamilton LRT is disastrous. Hamilton needs revitalization and transit use there is high (and therefore not as dependent on subsidies). Hamilton has great housing stock and the potential to become the affordable housing choice for young families if the right infrastructure moves are made. I recommend scaling back the project slightly, perhaps starting with a shorter line, removing some of the ROW separations, and asking the federal government to chip in. Ford seems to be exaggerating costs. How can a much longer Hurontario LRT be so much cheaper? Businesses and developers began planning and spending with the assurance that the LRT would be built. Upwards of $180 million has already been spent on this project. The LRT is exactly what Hamilton needs. Why does the Province think it can get away with reneging? Could it relate to high poverty levels and the idea that vulnerable Hamilton won't push back?
Steve X
Senior Member
The speculation is they don't like NDP. Hamilton needs it and the PC wants to screw them over. Doug is here for "some" people.
Yes they can get away with it till the change of government. Even if the Feds decides to fund it, they can't do anything without the province's support. Like Toronto, they can pretty much pass a law stating multiplicity cannot proceed with any transit expansion project, it must be done by Queen's Park. Considering Hamilton won't vote for PC anyways, it's pretty safe to piss them all off and let the city die.
TransitBart
Senior Member
The need did not go away.
Hamilton could be a city of a million people in the Hamilton CMA in no time. The need for a livable commuter city within a 30 minute GO commute from Toronto is not going away. The need to get around the place you live is not going away. The last word has not been heard on this. There is an entire BLAST network which Hamilton has planned. A city of a million needs to get about. There is also this little elephant in the room called climate change.
I am a Toronto resident. Born and bred. I often drive because transit is useless in parts of this city. Line 5 will solve part of my transit gripes. The Ontario line plus line five solves all of mine. My story is repeated millions of times in southern Ontario. The current situation in Hamilton is not the end. It's only the situation today.
rbt
Senior Member
My overly cynical bet is the provincially appointed committee concludes the $1B should be spent improving the GO corridor between Hamilton and Grimsby; thus helping Ford fulfill a promise of all-day Niagara train service.
Since it's a nearby corridor it must serve the same people right? Lets ignore that the train doesn't actually stop often enough for local service.
Since it's a nearby corridor it must serve the same people right? Lets ignore that the train doesn't actually stop often enough for local service.
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
Hamilton transit use actually isn’t really any higher than any 905 suburb IIRC.
raptor
Senior Member
begs the question, why would Hamilton need an LRT?
innsertnamehere
Superstar
My understanding is that historically transit use was much higher as the lower city used to be a lot denser. Over the last 20 years the lower city has lost a ton of population as it shifted to the suburbs on the mountain and along with other factors resulted in significant drops in transit ridership.
Hamilton has potential to have great transit use, more than the rest of the 905. It just doesn’t right now.
raptor
Senior Member
who's to say that if the LRT is built, it will be well used?