duffo said:
Sorry... no. This is the population density map for Hamilton. Which line has more residents along its route? Commuting flows may feed from the low-density Mountain down into downtown, but doesn't actually mean the A-Line would be effective as it would require many residents to connect on local buses which HSR still likes to run fairly infrequently (= slower overall travel time). The return on investment would simply be much lower.
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Explicity why I said latent potential. The density and compact nature of downtown currently favours a more local service. The street grid and densification potential along the A-Line route, and the length of the route favours a faster more express service. Combine this with the connection it would have to GO Stations which in the coming years will see a massive increase in service and you can see the potential the A-Line has. This is planning for the future, not just reacting to the current dynamic. I've also said in the past that I think in decades to come we may require a more rapid service along the east-west axis of the lower city but this can also be served by GO potentially.

Hamilton will grow to 800k by 2050, when Vancouver built the skytrain in the 80s the central city only had some 400-500k residents and the entire metro area less than 1.5 million.
 
KevinT said:
A curious statement given that the TTC's Bombardier Flexity Outlooks and Waterloo Region's Flexity Freedoms have both run several years now with minimal issues, while Ottawa's Alstom Citadis vehicles are endlessly floundering. The Flexities had their teething problems, sure, but they were relatively quickly sorted.
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I wouldn't say that KW's Flexity Freedoms are without their issues. Certainly they work 99% of the time but they have an innate ability to not run in freezing rain. It doesn't matter how much notice is given that there will be freezing rain you can basically guarantee that the system shuts down. The one time we had freezing rain this fall the system had to shut down. Last winter it felt like every week it was shutting down because of freezing rain. They work fine in other winter weather like large amounts of snow but freezing rain is the Flexities kryptonite. The Region is working on trying to fix the freezing rain issue with Keolis but it's not really known if or when it will be resolved, there was talk of getting more ice scrappers and a few deicing machines (they had one set up at Waterloo Town Square last winter) but the issue at least last year is they couldn't get procured in time. However it is certainly better than Ottawa's issues with their Alstom vehicles.
 
ZEBuilder said:
I wouldn't say that KW's Flexity Freedoms are without their issues. Certainly they work 99% of the time but they have an innate ability to not run in freezing rain. It doesn't matter how much notice is given that there will be freezing rain you can basically guarantee that the system shuts down. The one time we had freezing rain this fall the system had to shut down. Last winter it felt like every week it was shutting down because of freezing rain. They work fine in other winter weather like large amounts of snow but freezing rain is the Flexities kryptonite. The Region is working on trying to fix the freezing rain issue with Keolis but it's not really known if or when it will be resolved, there was talk of getting more ice scrappers and a few deicing machines (they had one set up at Waterloo Town Square last winter) but the issue at least last year is they couldn't get procured in time. However it is certainly better than Ottawa's issues with their Alstom vehicles.
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I see that entirely as an operations issue, not a vehicle issue. I would be incredibly surprised if it were vehicle-specific.
 
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DC83 said:
Again, the B-Line LRT plan was a result of the RAPID READY study, which was done to find a RAPID TRANSIT solution for Hamilton.

You can’t just keep repeating this new “it was never about rapid transit” narrative hoping it sticks.

This was always about Rapid Transit, with infrastructure upgrades as a side bonus to win over suburban voters.
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Looking at the RapidReady report from 2013, speed (as in end-to-end travel time) is not really mentioned at all. On page 1, the report defines rapid transit as a "high frequency transit service operating in a dedicated corridor". The mission on the same page states:
Rapid Transit is more than just moving people from place to place. It is about providing a catalyst for the development of high quality, safe, sustainable and affordable transportation options for our citizens, connecting key destination points, stimulating economic development and revitalizing Hamilton.

Pages 2 and 3 go into details of the benefits which include "healthier communities", "economic development", "transit oriented communities", "environmental", and "city image". Indeed the bulk of the report is about improving transit by improving frequencies, generating TOD, and integrating with multi-modal connections.

The word "Rapid" is a misnomer but the fact is, the project hasn't been about creating a "fast" service since at least 2013 which is before the line was first funded.

RapidReady report: http://www2.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyre...286-8ECACE07BB0E/0/RR1_Rapid_Ready_Report.pdf
 
KevinT said:
I see that as an entirely an operations issue, not a vehicle issue. I would be incredibly surprised if it were vehicle-specific.
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Especially considering Toronto has run those cars without those problems for 10 years...
 
T3G said:
Especially considering Toronto has run those cars without those problems for 10 years...
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I stand to be corrected, but Hamilton is not getting TTC style cars, but the Ottawa and Hurnontario cars that do have problems. The first Hurontario car is in Kingston been tested to help resolve Ottawa cars issues.

If Hamilton is getting the Freedom cars, they will come from Kingston since that was where the KW and Metrolinx fleet were built. Brampton will be used to build Hamilton cars that built the Finch cars and doing the Hurontario cars.
 
I'm not sure if any of you have noticed, but Sherman has been completely repaved, sidewalks redone and new curbs installed at King Street as part of the utility early works for the LRT. A nice preview of what we can expect along the entire length of the LRT. It is going to be such a transformational change for our city. Can't wait for it to get started.
 
It will be interesting to see how the vehicle procurement goes - given the substantial number of potential manufacturers, and how much politics plays into the decision making process...
Edmonton has ordered trains from Hyundai Rotem, Calgary has ordered from CAF, Alstom would obviously be interested ....
 
turini2 said:
It will be interesting to see how the vehicle procurement goes - given the substantial number of potential manufacturers, and how much politics plays into the decision making process...
Edmonton has ordered trains from Hyundai Rotem, Calgary has ordered from CAF, Alstom would obviously be interested ....
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Since this is an ML project, the LRV's will be coming from Alstom. The last I heard, they are the same cars as Ottawa as well the ones that went to the Finch Line and been built for Mississauga out of the Brampton plant.
 
drum118 said:
Since this is an ML project, the LRV's will be coming from Alstom. The last I heard, they are the same cars as Ottawa as well the ones that went to the Finch Line and been built for Mississauga out of the Brampton plant.
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From what they've said they haven't chosen a train manufacturer yet, as it hasn't gone out for RFP. Have you heard internal rumblings?
 
Chris R. said:
From what they've said they haven't chosen a train manufacturer yet, as it hasn't gone out for RFP. Have you heard internal rumblings?
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Unless the city is paying 100% for the LRV's and maintaining them, they will be coming from Alstom under ML control/ownership. What may change is the LRV style from the Sprint to the Freedom as well length. If Freedom, they will be built in Kingston like the Crosstown, KW and Edmonton cars were. If Sprint, it will be Brampton after they finish Mississauga cars that are underway now with the first one in Kingston for testing and dealing with Ottawa cars issues since they are the same car.

ML is doing only made/built/assembly in Ontario LRV's to protect jobs in Ontario like Thunder Bay who are doing TTC new cars with parts from Quebec and Europe.
 
drum118 said:
Unless the city is paying 100% for the LRV's and maintaining them, they will be coming from Alstom under ML control/ownership. What may change is the LRV style from the Sprint to the Freedom as well length. If Freedom, they will be built in Kingston like the Crosstown, KW and Edmonton cars were. If Sprint, it will be Brampton after they finish Mississauga cars that are underway now with the first one in Kingston for testing and dealing with Ottawa cars issues since they are the same car.

ML is doing only made/built/assembly in Ontario LRV's to protect jobs in Ontario like Thunder Bay who are doing TTC new cars with parts from Quebec and Europe.
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Interesting that they didn't take that approach with the Ontario Line - Hitachi rolling stock likely made in Italy!

Alstom have been binning the majority of the BBD intellectual property - seems very unlikely they would stick with a BBD Flexity product given that they are only advertising Citadis products. https://www.alstom.com/solutions/rolling-stock/citadis-light-rail-designed-reflect-your-citys-unique-identity
 
Chris R. said:
From what they've said they haven't chosen a train manufacturer yet, as it hasn't gone out for RFP. Have you heard internal rumblings?
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yes, I can imagine a few providers kicking up a fuss if Alstom was selected automatically...
 
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