TheTigerMaster said:
When (if?) the Progressive Conservatives come into power in 2018, Metrolinx will be dissolved or fashioned into a lapdog of the PC Party of Ontario. I don't know why anyone actually expects an ounce of objectivity from this agency. Every major project they've supported (or not supported) has been for political reasons.
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Not to go too off topic, but a lot of the corridors where projects are being built where contemplated for rapid transit of some form years before Metrolinx was created. So I'm not sure it's completely accurate to say that "every" major project they've supported has been for political reasons. They've certainly had to follow orders from Queen's Park (IE Scarborough). I realize this might come off as a naive question but are there several projects you would use as examples that were supported/not supported for political reasons?
 
TOareaFan said:
So, asked if Hamilton loses its $1B if it does not build LRT....the premier says repeatedly the money is for Transit in Hamilton....
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Wynne, just resign please. You are not helping.

So if you happen to be one of those undecided councillors with plenty of skepticism of the LRT to begin with, and now you find out that the funding will stay in the city regardless...then guess what, now that councillor is probably gonna vote no. Maybe that councillor will prefer get that money redirected to some other project that council cares about more, like GO transit improvements. This statement has further damaged the probability of the LRT proceeding without delay at this point.
 
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As things stand:
- Six councillors publicly supportive (including the mayor)
- Six councillors opposed or can't support the project without changes
- Only four undecideds; Maria Pearson and Arlene VanderBeek didn't give away any hints, Tom Jackson asked many questions but suggested a "likely majority" of his constituents oppose LRT, Rob Pasuta was ill and absent

Some quotes from The Spec:
Ostensibly, the delay is to allow councillors time to digest new community and staff information after another marathon City Hall meeting. But the fear is, the real reason is councillors opposed to the project want time to come up with directions to staff for exploring either a Plan B or negotiations with Metrolinx and the province.

It may also be that the same councillors simply don't have the courage to overtly kill the largest infrastructure project in Hamilton's history without a decent interval.
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If there is a forlorn hope of wooing fence-sitting or skeptical councillors over to the LRT camp, a dejected Sam Merulla, one of LRT's most vocal supporters, certainly doesn't see it. "I'm not optimistic that it will be supported and it is truly a turning point for the City of Hamilton."
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You could tell something was desperately wrong by late afternoon, when Eisenberger had a brief, clearly frustrating private exchange with Whitehead, who later proposed the new delay.

A few minutes later, after exchanging a quick word with Pearson, he seemed to almost have collapsed into himself as he returned to his chair.
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Allandale25 said:
Not to go too off topic, but a lot of the corridors where projects are being built where contemplated for rapid transit of some form years before Metrolinx was created. So I'm not sure it's completely accurate to say that "every" major project they've supported has been for political reasons. They've certainly had to follow orders from Queen's Park (IE Scarborough). I realize this might come off as a naive question but are there several projects you would use as examples that were supported/not supported for political reasons?
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Metrolinx doesn't fund anything. Everything they build is funded by Queen's Park. That means the transport minister and premiere have final say. That should tell you all you need to know about the political nature of what Metrolinx builds.

Furthermore, over a decade of watching Metrolinx, I've yet to see them once stray at all from Liberal party policy. In fact, they have a history of covering up for the blunders of their Liberal masters (as any reporter who's tried to get information out of the reclusive agency will tell you). Wynne says Scarborough deserves subways, Metrolinx is sudddenly is 100% on board, and will work tiressly to cover up any internal report against the project and Liberal party policy. Doesn't sound like a very independent or objective agency, does it?

Metrolinx exists to implenent QP infrastructure policy. Nothing more, nothing less. Metrolinx's position on various issues should be treated with the same skepticism afforded to any politician.
 
salsa said:
Wynne, just resign please. You are not helping.

So if you happen to be one of those undecided councillors with plenty of skepticism of the LRT to begin with, and now you find out that the funding will stay in the city regardless...then guess what, now that councillor is probably gonna vote no. Maybe that councillor will prefer get that money redirected to some other project that council cares about more, like GO transit improvements. This statement has further damaged the probability of the LRT proceeding without delay at this point.
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Wynne should resign for listening to the opinion of a local council?

I support this LRT as much as anyone else, but municipal autonomy needs to be respected. Hamilton is a mature government of 550,000 people. They're capable of making their own decisions.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I support this LRT as much as anyone else, but municipal autonomy needs to be respected. Hamilton is a mature government of 550,000 people. They're capable of making their own decisions.
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The only thing with that, is that Hamilton's city council is even more dysfunctional than Toronto's. They're not capable of making their own decisions.
 
Amare said:
The only thing with that, is that Hamilton's city council is even more dysfunctional than Toronto's. They're not capable of making their own decisions.
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As if Queen's Park is any less politically motivated than municipal councils...

Large municipalities are mature levels of governments and their wishes should be respected. Hamilton is larger than two of our provinces - they can make their own decisions.

Otherwise we'd end up with nonsense like amalgamation and Spadina Expressways.

Think about it this way. If this were Hamilton voting in favour of LRT, and the Province saying that Hamilton can't build a LRT in their city because they don't want it screwing up traffic flow on a regional corridor, I doubt you'd be too pleased.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Arbitrarily designating something as "regional" shouldn't give the Province carte blanche to screw cities over. Municipal autonomy should be respected. Otherwise we end up this things like the Spadina Expressway imposed on unwilling communities. The Province might not be happy about it, but that's democracy for ya.

And calling this LRT regional is a bit of a stretch.
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The lines themselves, to be clear, are not necessarily regional. The network is; it allows a greater amount of people to travel between work, home and play by transit, from anywhere to anywhere in the GTHA, in a convenient, fast and seamless manner. I also hardly see the comparison to the Spadina Expressway. We're are talking about a mode of transportation that contributes to the local and regional economy, is energy and cost efficient, and is equitable to all segments of the population. No one is getting screwed over.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Large municipalities are mature levels of governments and their wishes should be respected. Hamilton is larger than two of our provinces - they can make their own decisions.

Otherwise we'd end up with nonsense like amalgamation and Spadina Expressways.
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Ooof. Some deep irony there. Hamilton was amalgamated, and the opposition is coming from the former outer municipality ward councillors. Amalgamation is letting this happen, it allowed people like Rob Ford get elected, and it let Transit City get killed.
 
Amare said:
The only thing with that, is that Hamilton's city council is even more dysfunctional than Toronto's. They're not capable of making their own decisions.
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They are certainly capable of making their own decisions......but what seems to bother people is that they may not make the decision that the majority on these boards want them to make....there is a difference between the two.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
Ooof. Some deep irony there. Hamilton was amalgamated, and the opposition is coming from the former outer municipality ward councillors. Amalgamation is letting this happen, it allowed people like Rob Ford get elected, and it let Transit City get killed.
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1. Transit City is dead? Somebody should tell Metrolinx.
2. Metro Toronto controlled infrastructure, so with or without amalgamation, we'd be in this situation.
3. The residents of the boroughs of Toronto are as Torontonian as anybody else. They live here, they work here, they pay taxes here, and they deserve their say, even if we're not always happy with the outcome.
 
This equivocation is pathetic. So is indulging the peasants inventing obtuse reasons not to proceed with the future. I say make the decisions from Queens Park. At this rate, city councillor should follow school trustee into the political dustbin.

IT's clear that there are no penalties for obtuseness in municipal politics. Look at Toronto.
 
TOareaFan said:
They are certainly capable of making their own decisions......but what seems to bother people is that they may not make the decision that the majority on these boards want them to make....there is a difference between the two.
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Does this seem like a city that knows what they're doing when it comes to transit?

City decides to establish an LRT office:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...t-into-reality-the-hard-work-begins-1.3180076

Has to confirm to "accept" money from the province to build LRT:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...nd-for-all-that-we-want-lrt-merulla-1.3565882

Followed up by requesting for more rapid transit money from province:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/blast-network-money-1.3696146

Then they postpone the vote to "accept" money
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...te-on-lrt-money-this-week-after-all-1.3584915

Then they postpone the vote to "accept" money again
https://www.thesil.ca/hamilton-city-council-postpones-lrt-reaffirmation-vote

Then follows that up by wanting to make LRT a referendum issue:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...n-ballot-referendum-on-hamilton-lrt-1.3770948

After that they would like to scrap the LRT subcommittee:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/hamilton-lrt-subcommittee-1.3837237\

It's probably better if I just post this document, since the amount of times LRT has been voted on in Hamilton is mind-numbing. Only the Scarborough subway extension can rival Hamilton's LRT project from a political standpoint.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2839031/LRT-Minutes-and-Reports-With-Links.pdf
 
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