mdrejhon said:
Silver lining:

The formerly cancelled Eglinton subway now exists, reborn as Eglinton Crosstown LRT.

Hamilton LRT, is all but certain, to have repeated attempts at resurrections. They're not going to give up rolling the dice.
Click to expand...
All of you are writing as though we are describing something discretionary. I thought there was a need to provide a city outside of Toronto with proper 21st century transit. If there is, then all this debate about whether is really a debate about when. And future governments will have to ensure that Hamilton is livable and workable. Especially if 10s of thousands of residents are commuting to Mississauga and Toronto to work on a daily basis.
 
gibsonm said:
The most successful regions have the widest diversity of housing options, so that people can transition to different forms of housing that suit their needs at different stages of their lives, but also to meet the demands of very different kinds of people and lifestyles. Ideally, the new communities we build are complete communities, with centres that are dense enough to provide higher order transit, but with peripheries that transition to and provide a sense of the countryside, allowing access to raw nature and a local food supply. Within that range of densities, one can transition to a variety of different housing forms without having to leave the community. The level of density at the centre and periphery varies depending on whether such communities are closer to or farther from major cities. Closer to the city the nature may be on a smaller scale within a programmed park. The farmland may be small garden allotments. Complete communities provide population scales that justify walkable mixed use downtowns, substantial programmed parks that aren’t simply empty no-man’s-lands that no one wants to use.

Land is precious, so if you choose to own a large home on a large lot close to the city, you will pay a small fortune. That doesn’t mean we eliminate such forms of housing, especially for those who are willing to live farther out and accept longer commutes to have them.

Nevertheless, the days of endless sprawling low density developments built around the automobile are done for multiple reasons. We can’t afford to service such settlements with transportation infrastructure. Canada only has so much arable land and the most fertile parts are seeing the most development, which is unsustainable if we want food security and the natural aquifers we need to filter our water, sustain our ecosystems, and provide the natural escapes people need.

Planning that provides densities that justify rapid transit reduces emissions, speeds up commute times, and improves quality of life. In many ways it’s 19th century downtowns like Hamilton’s that are the model. They have the walkable transit-friendly villages with dense centres, flexible housing, workplaces, and retail, but they need enhancement.
Click to expand...


I'm not certain low density sprawl will even be done even in the next 100 years. But I do agree we do need to transition and change the planning for many of the current low density areas none the less.

These outer suburban areas need to have well planned Centres which allow for seamless car dismounts both to the Centre and to access rapid transit to other areas. These areas need the connectivity of seamless rapid transit to access the other Centres from the start and built at the same time we are investing in Downtown to avoid stagnation, apathy and provide practical access to opportunities for all lifestyles. These smaller hubs should also become 'walk-able transit-friendly villages with dense centers, flexible housing, workplaces, and retail..' in their own right and magnitude with practical and detailed transitional planning.

The Hamilton plan looks like a a narrow ideology which rams density in one area without really considering the reality and benefits of the current residents in surrounding areas. The politics reflect that. We really need to start doing better in amalgamated Cities, as it is only this difficult when we choose to grow areas in isolation without transition other areas needs in a detailed manner. LRT extensions to Eastgate or BRT to the waterfront wont put a dent into the overall support issues and lack of common-sense, big picture planning we see today. The planning criteria has to be more detailed within a wider lens.
 
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image001.png

image004.jpg


From link.

Earth scientists have been making the case for years that the present level of human activity is not sustainable. We’re rapidly depleting resources, degrading ecosystems, altering the atmosphere, etc. What earth scientists are saying is generally not covered by the mainstream media, or is sugar coated, because the mainstream media is an outlet for the corporate perspective on the world.

As an example, in 2017 global crude oil + condensate production (typically used to define oil-this does not include natural gas liquids, biofuels, or other hydrocarbon liquids) was about 30 billion barrels. Cumulative world oil production at the end of 2017 was approximately 1.36 trillion barrels (1,360 billion barrels). Since WWII, approximately 95% of the cumulative total global oil production has been produced
Click to expand...

Jean Laherrere, an international petroleum geologist with over 50 years of experience, had estimated ultimate recoverable oil, excluding extra heavy oil, at approximately 2.2 trillion barrels back in 2013. It’s a good bet that the ultimate recovery of economically recoverable oil will be less than 3 trillion barrels. At the clip we’re burning oil, we could go through a significant percentage of the remaining economically recoverable oil in the next 20 years.
Click to expand...

In recent years, the rate of global oil discovery has been running less than 1/5th the rate of global oil consumption. It appears that the 2017 discovery rate will end up around 1/10th of the consumption rate. The most favorable geologic areas for oil have now been extensively explored so there isn’t that much oil left to find.
Click to expand...

Yet we still have politicians who ignore the science and continue to think that the supply of petroleum is infinite when it really is only finite.
 
TransitBart said:
All of you are writing as though we are describing something discretionary. I thought there was a need to provide a city outside of Toronto with proper 21st century transit. If there is, then all this debate about whether is really a debate about when. And future governments will have to ensure that Hamilton is livable and workable. Especially if 10s of thousands of residents are commuting to Mississauga and Toronto to work on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

The only reason any transit is improved is for votes. It has nothing to do with livable or workable areas. It has nothing to do with bringing a city into the 21st century. Remember, it ws the 1800s that Boston started burring their lines. So, at best, we are bringing it to the 19th or 20th century.
 
Allandale25 said:
www.thespec.com

Opinion Articles | The Spec

The latest insights and commentary about news in Hamilton, surrounding areas and the world from columnists, editors and our readers.
www.thespec.com www.thespec.com
Click to expand...

As part of Hamilton City Council's deliberation of the city's 2020 operating budget, Council spent "Transit Day" discussing Hamilton's HSR operations. At the same time, the Government of Ontario announced who would be sitting on the panel tasked with determining the future of LRTin Hamilton.
Click to expand...

Anyone want to be no opposition party members nor pro-LRT ratepayers will be on that panel?
 
The team (in large part assisted by Ryan McGreal) have been doing a great job at hamiltonlightrail.ca and tweeting from @HamOntLightTrail

...leaked documents show cost overrun is only 2%

A highly recommended follow.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1232690765299453952

https://twitter.com/x/status/1229805672969183232

With the leaked documents on the internally-already-approved ~$3.7 billion (versus the actual non-inflated cost 30-year estimates closer to approximately $3.8 billion, not inflated 30-year $5.5 billion)
New leaked cost estimates show Hamilton LRT is only 2% over budget.

Hamilton LRT $1B is capital/construction only
The Liberal announced $1B is only the capital & construction cost only (proof on ontario.ca). If one reads that link to 2015 Liberal announcement, it only said capital.

Hamilton LRT $3.7B includes operating & maintenance for 30-years
While the $3.65B (already approved by Ontario Treasury before Ford cancelled) includes 30-year operating & maintenance. And it was leaked that Ontario Teasury Board had already internally approved the entire 30-year cost (approximately $3.7 billion).

Hurontario LRT $4.6B including O&M for 30-year -- Similar Situation, Approved Without Scandal
Hurontario LRT got announced at $1.6B capital (scaled back to $1.4B after shortening to exclude Brampton Downtown leg, see Page 123 of Ontario Budget 2018), the already approved 30-year cost of Hurontario is $4.6 billion for 30-year total (Proof on ontario.ca Website !!! and UrbanToronto wrote about this too). But this was not scandalized because $1.4B is capital ("DB" in DBFOM only), while $4.6B includes operating and maintenance (DBFOM for 30-years).

The sheningians that Ford did to blackmail the Hamilton LRT in public cost perception, is pretty despicable. Even a lot of his Conservative Allies are mad at Ford for the LRT cancellation -- especially LIUNA and others. Mayor Fred -- as much as some of us are unhappy with him on other matters -- I'm glad he released no-longer-confidential Hamilton LRT documents. Even though a couple of bidders pulled out, I bet some intentional demoralizing of the bidders was done by behind-the-scene sheninigians (that's what I hear in the grapevine).

One of the LRT bidders (including LIUNA) is doing their own audit on the inflated numbers; LIUNA (formerly Ford ally) disagrees with Ford's inflated $5.5B number.

As a taxpayer, you should be mad they are playing Monopoly Money on your hard-earned dollars -- by cheating at mathematics to blackmail the taxpaying public in thinking the Hamilton LRT is massively cost-overrun -- distorting the variable in costing the "DB"(construction) versus "DBFOM"(30-year).

DBFOM total is only 2% over budget.

The bigger scandal is that Ford was unfair with Hurontario-versus-Hamilton.

References:
  1. Link to ontario.ca (2015): Hurontario LRT $1.6B capital announcement ("DB" in DBFOM)
  2. Link to ontario.ca (2019): Hurontario LRT $4.6B approved 30-year cost including operations/maint (full DBFOM)
    -- These announcements are several years apart. Hurontario was also waiting for O&M cost confirmation!
    .
  3. Link to ontario.ca (2015): Hamilton LRT $1B capital announcement ("DB" in DBFOM)
  4. Leaked actual #s (2019): Hamilton LRT $3.7B approved 30-year cost including operations/maint (full DBFOM)
  5. False inflated #s: Hamilton LRT $5.5B fake numbers is NOWHERE on ontario.ca.
    -- It was only "released" on twitter & news media
    -- The formerly-confidential docs is now released by Mayor Fred onto hamilton.ca
    -- Plausible legal-court deniability, my bleep.
    .
  6. Ontario Treasury Approved Cost $3.66B versus Metrolinx Cost Estimate $3.75B
    "already-approved total 30-year budget of $3.66 billion"
    "30-year cost for Hamilton's LRT was $3.75 billion, or just $87 million over its approved budget"
    Only 2% cost overrun on DBFOM total !!! !!! !!!
 
Last edited:
mdrejhon said:
The team (in large part assisted by Ryan McGreal) have been doing a great job at hamiltonlightrail.ca and tweeting from @HamOntLightTrail

...leaked documents show cost overrun is only 2%

A highly recommended follow.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1232690765299453952

https://twitter.com/x/status/1229805672969183232

With the leaked documents on the internally-already-approved ~$3.7 billion (versus the actual non-inflated cost 30-year estimates closer to approximately $3.8 billion, not inflated 30-year $5.5 billion)
New leaked cost estimates show Hamilton LRT is only 2% over budget.

Hamilton LRT $1B is capital/construction only
The Liberal announced $1B is only the capital & construction cost only (proof on ontario.ca). If one reads that link to 2015 Liberal announcement, it only said capital.

Hamilton LRT $3.7B includes operating & maintenance for 30-years
While the $3.65B (already approved by Ontario Treasury before Ford cancelled) includes 30-year operating & maintenance. And it was leaked that Ontario Teasury Board had already internally approved the entire 30-year cost (approximately $3.7 billion).

Hurontario LRT $4.6B including O&M for 30-year -- Similar Situation, Approved Without Scandal
Hurontario LRT got announced at $1.6B capital (scaled back to $1.4B after shortening to exclude Brampton Downtown leg, see Page 123 of Ontario Budget 2018), the already approved 30-year cost of Hurontario is $4.6 billion for 30-year total (Proof on ontario.ca Website !!! and UrbanToronto wrote about this too). But this was not scandalized because $1.4B is capital ("DB" in DBFOM only), while $4.6B includes operating and maintenance (DBFOM for 30-years).

The sheningians that Ford did to blackmail the Hamilton LRT in public cost perception, is pretty despicable. Even a lot of his Conservative Allies are mad at Ford for the LRT cancellation -- especially LIUNA and others. Mayor Fred -- as much as some of us are unhappy with him on other matters -- I'm glad he released no-longer-confidential Hamilton LRT documents. Even though a couple of bidders pulled out, I bet some intentional demoralizing of the bidders was done by behind-the-scene sheninigians (that's what I hear in the grapevine).

One of the LRT bidders (including LIUNA) is doing their own audit on the inflated numbers; LIUNA (formerly Ford ally) disagrees with Ford's inflated $5.5B number.

As a taxpayer, you should be mad they are playing Monopoly Money on your hard-earned dollars -- by cheating at mathematics to blackmail the taxpaying public in thinking the Hamilton LRT is massively cost-overrun -- distorting the variable in costing the "DB"(construction) versus "DBFOM"(30-year).

DBFOM total is only 2% over budget.

The bigger scandal is that Ford was unfair with Hurontario-versus-Hamilton.

References:
  1. Link to ontario.ca (2015): Hurontario LRT $1.6B capital announcement ("DB" in DBFOM)
  2. Link to ontario.ca (2019): Hurontario LRT $4.6B approved 30-year cost including operations/maint (full DBFOM)
    -- These announcements are several years apart. Hurontario was also waiting for O&M cost confirmation!
    .
  3. Link to ontario.ca (2015): Hamilton LRT $1B capital announcement ("DB" in DBFOM)
  4. Leaked actual #s (2019): Hamilton LRT $3.7B approved 30-year cost including operations/maint (full DBFOM)
  5. False inflated #s: Hamilton LRT $5.5B fake numbers is NOWHERE on ontario.ca.
    -- It was only "released" on twitter & news media
    -- The formerly-confidential docs is now released by Mayor Fred onto hamilton.ca
    -- Plausible legal-court deniability, my bleep.
    .
  6. Ontario Treasury Approved Cost $3.66B versus Metrolinx Cost Estimate $3.75B
    "already-approved total 30-year budget of $3.66 billion"
    "30-year cost for Hamilton's LRT was $3.75 billion, or just $87 million over its approved budget"
    Only 2% cost overrun on DBFOM total !!! !!! !!!
Click to expand...

As of January, 2020, the Canadian inflation rate was 2.4%. See link. Which means the overrun of 2% is less than inflation.
 
mdrejhon said:
The team (in large part assisted by Ryan McGreal) have been doing a great job at hamiltonlightrail.ca and tweeting from @HamOntLightTrail

...leaked documents show cost overrun is only 2%

A highly recommended follow.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1232690765299453952

https://twitter.com/x/status/1229805672969183232

With the leaked documents on the internally-already-approved ~$3.7 billion (versus the actual non-inflated cost 30-year estimates closer to approximately $3.8 billion, not inflated 30-year $5.5 billion)
New leaked cost estimates show Hamilton LRT is only 2% over budget.

Hamilton LRT $1B is capital/construction only
The Liberal announced $1B is only the capital & construction cost only (proof on ontario.ca). If one reads that link to 2015 Liberal announcement, it only said capital.

Hamilton LRT $3.7B includes operating & maintenance for 30-years
While the $3.65B (already approved by Ontario Treasury before Ford cancelled) includes 30-year operating & maintenance. And it was leaked that Ontario Teasury Board had already internally approved the entire 30-year cost (approximately $3.7 billion).

Hurontario LRT $4.6B including O&M for 30-year -- Similar Situation, Approved Without Scandal
Hurontario LRT got announced at $1.6B capital (scaled back to $1.4B after shortening to exclude Brampton Downtown leg, see Page 123 of Ontario Budget 2018), the already approved 30-year cost of Hurontario is $4.6 billion for 30-year total (Proof on ontario.ca Website !!! and UrbanToronto wrote about this too). But this was not scandalized because $1.4B is capital ("DB" in DBFOM only), while $4.6B includes operating and maintenance (DBFOM for 30-years).

The sheningians that Ford did to blackmail the Hamilton LRT in public cost perception, is pretty despicable. Even a lot of his Conservative Allies are mad at Ford for the LRT cancellation -- especially LIUNA and others. Mayor Fred -- as much as some of us are unhappy with him on other matters -- I'm glad he released no-longer-confidential Hamilton LRT documents. Even though a couple of bidders pulled out, I bet some intentional demoralizing of the bidders was done by behind-the-scene sheninigians (that's what I hear in the grapevine).

One of the LRT bidders (including LIUNA) is doing their own audit on the inflated numbers; LIUNA (formerly Ford ally) disagrees with Ford's inflated $5.5B number.

As a taxpayer, you should be mad they are playing Monopoly Money on your hard-earned dollars -- by cheating at mathematics to blackmail the taxpaying public in thinking the Hamilton LRT is massively cost-overrun -- distorting the variable in costing the "DB"(construction) versus "DBFOM"(30-year).

DBFOM total is only 2% over budget.

The bigger scandal is that Ford was unfair with Hurontario-versus-Hamilton.

References:
  1. Link to ontario.ca (2015): Hurontario LRT $1.6B capital announcement ("DB" in DBFOM)
  2. Link to ontario.ca (2019): Hurontario LRT $4.6B approved 30-year cost including operations/maint (full DBFOM)
    -- These announcements are several years apart. Hurontario was also waiting for O&M cost confirmation!
    .
  3. Link to ontario.ca (2015): Hamilton LRT $1B capital announcement ("DB" in DBFOM)
  4. Leaked actual #s (2019): Hamilton LRT $3.7B approved 30-year cost including operations/maint (full DBFOM)
  5. False inflated #s: Hamilton LRT $5.5B fake numbers is NOWHERE on ontario.ca.
    -- It was only "released" on twitter & news media
    -- The formerly-confidential docs is now released by Mayor Fred onto hamilton.ca
    -- Plausible legal-court deniability, my bleep.
    .
  6. Ontario Treasury Approved Cost $3.66B versus Metrolinx Cost Estimate $3.75B
    "already-approved total 30-year budget of $3.66 billion"
    "30-year cost for Hamilton's LRT was $3.75 billion, or just $87 million over its approved budget"
    Only 2% cost overrun on DBFOM total !!! !!! !!!
Click to expand...
But it was never really about costs...
 
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