robmausser
Senior Member
Id rather see the money spent on a bridge to Wards, but I always seem to be in the minority
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- Thread starter themarc
- Start date
Northern Light
Superstar
So you want all Ferry Service cancelled?
The existing ferries are past end of life...... these are just replacements.
I don't think any bridge to Ward's, even if it were buildable in a practical way would replace the Ferries.
robmausser
Senior Member
I think it would replace the Wards ferry.
The other 2 no, but they replacement should only cover a single ferry in my opinion that operates Ferry Docks -> Center -> Hanlans - Ferry Docks.
The rest of the money should go to a Ward's bridge.
I do think this would only work in conjunction with a Waterfront East Streetcar that goes all the way to Cherry Beach, as well as more of those golf kart tram things on the island, Bike Share, and other methods to get around on the island.
Northern Light
Superstar
Hmm.
Interesting thought, but I'm inclined to disagree.
So, the Ward's Island Ferry also serves those living on Algonquin Island.
I measured the furthest distance from a residence to the Ferry - 900M; I measured the furthest distanced from that residence to the mainland via a bridge across the opening to inner habour, 1.5km.
You took their walk from 15M, 22.5M w/this change, and that assumes there's transit to meet them at the other end of this bridge, where today, w/the ferry, they are walking distance to downtown and Union Station.
Best case scenario a transit trip back to downtown adds another 10 minutes, but I imagine it would be more.
I'm not sold that its workable to eliminate that ferry movement.
Also, remember that the vehicle ferry isn't just for moving City vehicles, its for moving furniture, building supplies etc etc.
robmausser
Senior Member
I would imagine if they built a bridge across the Eastern Channel, it could or would be built in such a way that vehicles could use it. Say, with the ability to support the weight of vehicles, and bollards etc in a way that would otherwise only make it accessible to pedestrians (bollards removed for vehicular access) The width of the bridge would support 2 way pedestrian traffic but only one way vehicular traffic, as it would be only used by the city and approved uses.
I am not sure the costs of such bridge, but I could see that being very worthwhile for city vehicles etc.
drum118
Superstar
It needs to be a lift bridge to allow shipping to enter/exit the harbour. You will get the folks who live on the island wanting to use that bridge free than pay to have their vehicles using the ferry and paying for it.
At the end of the day, no bridge period. There is no good transit there now nor in the next 30-50 years if then. You will need a parking deck to support the cars taking visitors to the island and that goes against Waterfront Toronto vision of having next to no cars in the Portland area and I support that vision.
Mind_the_gap
Active Member
Keep in mind they could toll the bridge and competitively price the ferry. My hopes aren’t too high though considering the ferry still doesn’t accept Presto.
yrt+viva=1system
Senior Member
A Toronto ferry tale with no ending. Electric-powered replacements for aging islands fleet delayed … again
Island residents frustrated as city confirms 2024-25 target for new vessels not happening with 2026 more likely. ‘It’s taken 10 years and we don’t even have the order in yet.’https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/a-...cle_3ad2e774-a2ee-5a05-8dc9-915039405f7f.html
Northern Light
Superstar
From the above:
The article then notes that the City approved a project to replace the Ferries, and to be begin setting aside funds for that purpose in 2013, with the intent of having the first
new ferry in service in 2019 or 2020.
So we're talking a timeline slippage of 5 or 6 years, expressed as percentage of the original timeline, ~100%
We see one stated reason for the delays below:
Not excusable. If electric wasn't available at the beginning of this process, you go w/diesel or w/e was available then. I'm all for going green, but you don't change design/aspiration mid-way through a process w/o one hell of a compelling
reason.
***
Additionally, the City was consulting w/Island residents on the design as recently as this spring.................
What the @#$# !!!!
I'm all for asking people what they would value or find useful in a design (seating, accomodation of strollers/bikes, wifi, usb ports etc etc.)
Great, should have been done in 2014.
The article then notes that the City approved a project to replace the Ferries, and to be begin setting aside funds for that purpose in 2013, with the intent of having the first
new ferry in service in 2019 or 2020.
So we're talking a timeline slippage of 5 or 6 years, expressed as percentage of the original timeline, ~100%
We see one stated reason for the delays below:
Not excusable. If electric wasn't available at the beginning of this process, you go w/diesel or w/e was available then. I'm all for going green, but you don't change design/aspiration mid-way through a process w/o one hell of a compelling
reason.
***
Additionally, the City was consulting w/Island residents on the design as recently as this spring.................
What the @#$# !!!!
I'm all for asking people what they would value or find useful in a design (seating, accomodation of strollers/bikes, wifi, usb ports etc etc.)
Great, should have been done in 2014.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I mean when was the last time the City of Toronto procured some large-scale project that didn't have nearly 100% time slippage?
Northern Light
Superstar
A fair comparison here, would be a large vehicle purchase, since that's what the Ferries are, is vehicles. No EA required.
TTC conceptual test of Electric Buses - Fall 2020
TTC order of electric buses (1,100 of them) - January 2023
Delivery begins as soon as 2024.
We can do much better than 13 years from deciding we need new Ferries to the first new Ferry arriving.
Granted, it takes longer to get a Ferry built than a bus..........but still.
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cplchanb
Senior Member
this is a classic example of scope creep. its all political posturing since they want that shiny greenwashing image when they cut the ribbons. they should make it a law that forbids large project development cancellation or significant change unless there is an unforeseen extenuating circumstance and would require at least 2/3 majority vote.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
It was stupid to start off with - the amount of emissions from 3 ferries is negligible compared to other concrete measures the city could undertake that would reduce emissions (like say, increasing public transit frequencies). You just wait till the ferries turned out to be non-compliant against the requirements in the long run.
Maybe we need to have a program called StupidTO.
AoD
Maybe we need to have a program called StupidTO.
AoD
crs1026
Superstar
The only problem with theToronto ferries is that they are at end of life. Let's not lose sight of that problem, or add agendas that don't need to be there to address that problem.
Wifi ? USB ports?
I seriously doubt that anyone's phone is going to run out of juice in the length of a ferry ride. And not much charging can happen in that length of time, either.
Personally I would be delighted if the new ones were exact carbon copies of the old ones, perhaps with whatever code improvements are required given that the originals were built many decades ago.
The whole value of the ferry experience is the open upper deck and the windowless vista. I will be sorry if the new ferries don't replicate that.
- Paul
PS- the latest Staten Island ferries look just like the older ones - hint.
Wifi ? USB ports?
I seriously doubt that anyone's phone is going to run out of juice in the length of a ferry ride. And not much charging can happen in that length of time, either.
Personally I would be delighted if the new ones were exact carbon copies of the old ones, perhaps with whatever code improvements are required given that the originals were built many decades ago.
The whole value of the ferry experience is the open upper deck and the windowless vista. I will be sorry if the new ferries don't replicate that.
- Paul
PS- the latest Staten Island ferries look just like the older ones - hint.
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
Let me put another perspective out there on this...
What's the hurry? Another year or three on the fleet has what impact? The media stuff on this keeps trying to connect overcrowding to the new fleet delays, but capacity issues stemming from the passenger count reductions could just as easily be addressed with operational solutions along the lines of better utilizing Oniagara and William Inglis, along with, you know, doing something like picking up an old Halifax vessel as a stopgap. I've got absolutely no issue with this project getting extended to avoid buying diesels right at the end of the era when they would make sense.
What's the hurry? Another year or three on the fleet has what impact? The media stuff on this keeps trying to connect overcrowding to the new fleet delays, but capacity issues stemming from the passenger count reductions could just as easily be addressed with operational solutions along the lines of better utilizing Oniagara and William Inglis, along with, you know, doing something like picking up an old Halifax vessel as a stopgap. I've got absolutely no issue with this project getting extended to avoid buying diesels right at the end of the era when they would make sense.