Markster
Senior Member
Am I correct in my counting that Brampton Council will have 11 voting members on this issue? 5 declared against leaves little wiggle room for success.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I suspect it carries 6-5
wopchop
Building Toronto
I'm not sure that I understand what route they are suggesting. So they are against the surface portion north of Nanwood, correct? But they also believe the LRT should serve Peel Memorial Hospital. Do they also still want it to to serve the GO Station? I'm having trouble understanding the route that they are suggesting, if any.
howl
Active Member
They want it to go up the Etobicoke Creek valley, which is a TRCA regulated floodplain, through the middle of the soccer fields and baseball diamond of Meadowland Park, through Centennial Park, adjacent to the back yards of the houses on Meadowland Drive, John Beck Cres., Haslemere Avenue, and Centre Street. Then they need to either tunnel under or bridge over the GO rail line.
It's clearly a red herring. It could never be built but by creating an "alternative" they can delay the LRT on Main Street for another few years without losing face.
It's clearly a red herring. It could never be built but by creating an "alternative" they can delay the LRT on Main Street for another few years without losing face.
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TOareaFan
Superstar
That is one route that one group is supporting....an equally large and vocal group prefer a route that goes West on Steeles to the college and former opp lands then works it's way to DT GO Station via a combination of Mclaughlin and the train corridor that goes to Orangeville.
There were (are, I guess) other suggested routes but those are the ones with fairly large support.
There were (are, I guess) other suggested routes but those are the ones with fairly large support.
howl
Active Member
Metrolinx isn't in the business of building local transit. They are building a regional transit system to get people around the GTA efficiently. Brampton can build anything they want with their own money, but Metronlinx just wants to get to its GO station.
drum118
Superstar
I thought about putting my name on the list, but was up to 50 then. Now its 130 and most likely 2-3 day event
<http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...ll-break-record-for-public-participation.html>
There is only 1 true route and that is what being proposed. Others are off the wall or wasting a lot of people time trying to use transit, as well hitting the pocket book hard in the coming years.
<http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...ll-break-record-for-public-participation.html>
There is only 1 true route and that is what being proposed. Others are off the wall or wasting a lot of people time trying to use transit, as well hitting the pocket book hard in the coming years.
TOareaFan
Superstar
If that were true they would not have spent so much money already on local transit projects and they would not be suggesting they would be ok stopping this at Steeles.
georgevicbell
Active Member
If they end up deciding they want to explore different options - Mississauga should be ready to jump in with an offer to the province to build the Dundas->Kipling branch, with a car-house somewhere along that route. They should propose that the design and contract be sent out for Hurontario to the border as soon as it's ready. The Dundas branch/carhouse design and EA should happen in parallel with contract going ahead when it's ready.
The thinking is that it will take Brampton a year or two to study which route they want, and then do an EA...so since the Dundas route is already fairly obvious it would be more of a benefit for regional transportation in the short term. Mississauga also can argue that if Burlington isn't prepared to build the car-house it shouldn't delay the Hurontario part of the plan...and they wouldn't mind the extra jobs.
Alternately, the province should just turn Hurontario/Main into a provincial road, and take the discussion away from the city...regional transportation should come before local grandstanding...the province will never improve their competitiveness if they are consistently being blocked by municipal politicians.
The thinking is that it will take Brampton a year or two to study which route they want, and then do an EA...so since the Dundas route is already fairly obvious it would be more of a benefit for regional transportation in the short term. Mississauga also can argue that if Burlington isn't prepared to build the car-house it shouldn't delay the Hurontario part of the plan...and they wouldn't mind the extra jobs.
Alternately, the province should just turn Hurontario/Main into a provincial road, and take the discussion away from the city...regional transportation should come before local grandstanding...the province will never improve their competitiveness if they are consistently being blocked by municipal politicians.
drum118
Superstar
Because of the mess at Kipling as well going into Halton, Metrolinx wants a BRT on Dundas Only to keep it one line requiring no changes along it.
An LRT on Dundas is only good between Cloverdale and Hurontario to deal with the issue at Kipling, But there is no plans for Cloverdale in the 25 year plan at this time that includes extending the subway there.
Hurontario & Main were Hwy 10 at One Time and is under Peel control now.
Based on density on Dundas west of Hurontario to Burlington, Going to be hard supporting a BRT in Halton, let alone an LRT. Even Mississauga is hard press supporting an BRT west of Hurontario and more so west of Erindale Station Rd.
The EA for Dundas is to get underway in 2016 and that may change on the revise Big Move Plan due in 2016.
georgevicbell
Active Member
I understand the appeal of one BRT across Dundas into Halton from a drawing line perspective...but I see Dundas from Kipling->403 as being mainly parking lots and box stores that could be redeveloped into medium->high density (businesses) given their proximity to GO in the east section and highways to the south...
No matter what the technology, if the money for brampton isn't going to get used...Mississauga should jump on it for east west transit along dundas to the subway...BRT is fine for now, my guess is that things would densify pretty quickly along dundas...given the quick trip to the subway, highways, go transit, and north south feeder LRT.
Also - Mississauga will be in a pickle if they can't use Brampton for the car-house...there is likely locations in Etobicoke that could be used...
drum118
Superstar
The carhouse is on the south side of 407 lands in Mississauga and has no impact as to what take place today for Brampton, other than a few less cars.
If an LRT was built on Dundas, Carhouse in the Dixie Rd Area. Dundas is on the DO List for Mississauga and higher than the Lakeshore LRT.
ShonTron
Moderator
Between the Etobicoke Creek Diversion and Haslemere Avenue and Centre Street, there's a an old 1950s-era waste landfill. You can still see the methane vent towers in the park.
The Etobicoke Creek alignment, which was studied twice, would have brought the LRT along a flood protection berm, which currently has a park trail on it. All other alternatives are costly and inconvenient for passengers. It's bonkers that so much time and money went into studying these expensive alternatives just to appease a few dozen NIMBYs on Main Street.
DonValleyRainbow
Senior Member
You would have to obtain a permit from the Toronto and Region Conservation Authority to run it through Etobicoke Creek. There would be many more studies and technical challenges to overcome before getting close to sign-off. The TRCA is also governed by representatives from other jurisdictions; Toronto, York and other Peel Region communities. Brampton won't be able to muscle this through.
Also, the Transportation Minister has put his foot down to alternatives, so it's especially bonkers at this point.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
How much power does the province have to override Brampton politics? It's evenly divided enough (50-50) that it may not be politically too risky for Ontario to ram LRT construction through, for infrastructural purposes. The province had the power to ram a freeway through a city, until Bill Davis put an end to that. But ramming an LRT through is far, far, far less disruptive than a freeway -- and arguably beneficial, some supporters may say. It may not be very politically risky at this stage if it turns out that there's a very even split in Brampton opinion which will almost certainly teeter favour to LRT after it's up and running for a while.
Sentiments will turn around fairly quickly after LRT is fully operational, as has been the precedent elsewhere. Heck, make it traffic-mixed for the final 2 blocks through Brampton Downtown, if we must.
We need to take the city's considerations into factor. But what is the real hidden cost of cancelling Hurontario's northern connection, including loss of Hurontario support elsewhere?
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