[Tuscani01]

Brampton's loss is another municipality's gain!

Doubt it will flow to anyone else. It's not like the money actually exists. If anything, the rest of the HMLRT will eat it up as unexpected costs turn up over the next few years.

 

[Napoleon]

Perhaps it's time for the province to appoint a "Philosopher King" to manage all transit decisions.

 

[TOareaFan]

Perhaps it's time for the province to appoint a "Philosopher King" to manage all transit decisions.

He was there last night...and he got outflanked by a rookie councilor.

I hope everyone keeps this same "screw X" mentality for future municipalities that don't just accept what is front of them. As far as I am aware this is the first time the province has taken this "we will re-allocate funds to another municipality" approach...and while I recognize there has to be a first for everything....if they do it here it should be their policy every time a municipality tries to mold a transit project based on their read of local issues/needs.

 

[gweed123]

He was there last night...and he got outflanked by a rookie councilor.

I hope everyone keeps this same "screw X" mentality for future municipalities that don't just accept what is front of them. As far as I am aware this is the first time the province has taken this "we will re-allocate funds to another municipality" approach...and while I recognize there has to be a first for everything....if they do it here it should be their policy every time a municipality tries to mold a transit project based on their read of local issues/needs.

Brampton had years, literally years, to make their voices heard with respect to the HMLRT. It's not like this plan suddenly came down from on-high, and it was a "take it or leave it" scenario. They had years to shape what "it" could be. The Province has every right to tell them to take a hike.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Ignore Brampton and let Metrolinx (and the province with input from Peel Region) make the decision to go ahead with it.

 

[TOareaFan]

Brampton had years, literally years, to make their voices heard with respect to the HMLRT. It's not like this plan suddenly came down from on-high, and it was a "take it or leave it" scenario. They had years to shape what "it" could be. The Province has every right to tell them to take a hike.

no where in my post did i a) say that Brampton did not have time or b) that the province does not have a right.

I simply said that if this is the province's new approach...then it should be applied universally.

 

[Adjei]

What did the No side gain from voting against this project?

 

[TOareaFan]

What did the No side gain from voting against this project?

They would tell you that they feel there are better routes (from a local perspective) to get the LRT to downtown. By stopping it at Steeles they left those routes open (in their minds) for future consideration.

Example of one would be the city's only post-secondary education institution is sheridan college....at least one of the "no"s last night referenced this as worth serving....I presume he would be in favour of the suggested route that goes west on Steeles to Mclaughlin then north-northeast to the GO station.

Likely the biggest challenge the "no"s have (IMO) is that outside of opposing the current route....they don't all agree. There are still people who favour a route that goes north through a park and then west on Queen (they think the Peel Memorial campus should be served)....and still others think that going east on Steeles then up Kennedy and then back to the DT make sense.

So it is not clear (even if ML) is amenable to discussing other routes...) how you get agreement amongst the "no"s over which route to take to ML.

All that said, Council is in its regular meeting now......started at 11 and is in an in camera/closed session until 1. Early indications are this is not done....despite what happened last night.

 

[Adjei]

The NO side can come up with the alternatives they want just as long as Brampton is prepared to cough up the cost of those alternatives just as Toronto is contributing almost 1 billion to convert the LRT to Subway in Scarborough.

 

[crs1026]

Ever since reading the vote results, I have had the Barenaked Ladies' "Jane" rattling around in my head.

Substitute "Main" for "Jane", and the lyrics are remarkably apt.

- Paul

 

[44 North]

I think the money should stay in Peel Region, and specifically go to Mississauga. Not only is it a subtle FU to Brampton, but Mississauga has been one of the few municipalities in the GTHA that has never wavered on what its transit priorities are. Mississauga Transitway is partially open and partially under construction now. Hurontario LRT was next on the list, followed by the Dundas BRT. This order has been settled for years now. Metrolinx should be rewarding municipalities who have their shit together instead of wasting time waiting for those who want to bicker endlessly (looking at you too, Toronto). No consensus? No funding.

I get what you're saying, but at the same time think that might not be fully fair. Some areas it's easier to plan and prioritize transit, others it's not. And just because something was bundled under a kitschy name like Transit City or the Big Move at one moment in history doesn't mean it can't be given a second look.

And the Prov isn't squeaky clean with regards to its plans, either. Much of the Big Move can be equated to a vote winning exercise, what with funds and projects laid out in a fair and politically palatable fashion across the board regardless of merit (not unlike TC or Network 2011). Or forwarded unworkable proposals like Yonge North. Not to mention they rescinded $4bn of Toronto's funding out of the blue, and haven't met numerous priorities promised in the late '00s.

 

[TOareaFan]

The NO side can come up with the alternatives they want just as long as Brampton is prepared to cough up the cost of those alternatives just as Toronto is contributing almost 1 billion to convert the LRT to Subway in Scarborough.

That could be the outcome of the review/study...although, again, last night ML seemed to be saying (in cagey/carefully worded way) that they would absorb the additional cost of the "reverse loop" option...so, again, it only encourages the "no" side when you show flex on routing and funding for one "option"....they think "why not others".

We will see how it all shakes out.

 

[mdrejhon]

Brampton (more specifically, Bramptonist the newspaper) apparently displayed this on the projector even before the final vote.

I guess to show that vultures were circling.

 

[salsa]

They feel there are better routes (from a local perspective) to get the LRT to downtown. By stopping it at Steeles they left those routes open (in their minds) for future consideration. Example of one would be the city's only post-secondary education institution is sheridan college....at least one of the "no"s last night referenced this as worth serving....I presume he would be in favour of the suggested route that goes west on Steeles to Mclaughlin then north-northeast to the GO station.

The no vote had everything to do with avoiding Main Street at all costs. I guess now they will opt for one of these cockamamie "alternative routes", all of which staff have rightfully rejected.

Oh and by the way, here is what Sheridan College looks like. Like most parts of Brampton, it's a suburban hell hole but at least it is well served by the 12 bus routes that stop right in front of the buildings. An LRT stop on Steeles Ave is not an improvement. Not only does it force students to walk a lot more, it also adds several minutes of travel time for the rest of the passengers who are heading downtown.

If the city really wants an LRT to said hell hole, then they would be better off considering a dedicated LRT line on Steeles Ave that replaces the Zum 511 Steeles bus, but only after Queen St and Main St are built. Enough already with this gerrymandering nonsense.

 

[crs1026]

That could be the outcome of the review/study...although, again, last night ML seemed to be saying (in cagey/carefully worded way) that they would absorb the additional cost of the "reverse loop" option...so, again, it only encourages the "no" side when you show flex on routing and funding for one "option"....they think "why not others".

It's a damned if you do/damned if you don't proposition - I thought this was a clever call, in that it positioned ML as having some willingness to talk about fine details while sticking to its stated position - to dampen down the side that will predictably portray the Province as heavy handed.

However, as you noted, in a negotiation, this kind of last-minute concession does tend to entice the other side into testing how much more might be extracted - it's a signal that 'no' may not mean 'no'. The more skilful negotiator tries to have this discussion before one reaches the point of 'no blink'. Did this get any play in the 'facilitation' phase?

- Paul