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Toronto hydro will not fix the feeder lines that connect directly to a home, that's private property (blame the city if you care) but its been like that for ages
Of course they will and do, who did you think strung the service wire from your home to the pole in front of your house? The problem you are addressing arises when the home owner has not provided or maintained an approved interface structure (usually the mast or insulator on the standpipe into your home) upon which to attach the wire.
The Hydro people have repaired the service wire into my home twice and replaced it along with all of their plant on the street a few years ago.
 
Well, hydro is more expensive in Europe than here, so the public is certainly paying for the underground system.
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Many enviros would like to see the prices go up here in order to encourage energy conservation. I would rather actually get something in return for that price increase (like buried cables). Energy conservation would be a by-product.

But the North American mentality is to want everything to be cheap, so we can have more "stuff", rather than having fewer things but having them be of higher quality.
 
Well, hydro is more expensive in Europe than here, so the public is certainly paying for the underground system.
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Many enviros would like to see the prices go up here in order to encourage energy conservation. I would rather actually get something in return for that price increase (like buried cables). Energy conservation would be a by-product.

But the North American mentality is to want everything to be cheap, so we can have more "stuff", rather than having fewer things but having them be of higher quality.
Bitcoin mining, which involves running mathematical formulae in one computer, tablet, or smartphone to generate bitcoins, obviously increasing electricity use, is much more viable in the likes of Canada or Mexico than in Scandinavia, where utility bills would be greater than the bitcoins generated.
 
I have never visited Europe (yet) but was always impressed by the clean look of the streets in photos. One doesn't have to go to Europe to see the same effect in some smallish towns in Ontario as they also have no aerial Hydro visible on Main Street. These towns achieve the look by serving the buildings on Main Street from pole lines in the back lanes, is this how European towns do it as well?

If power is supplied by buried cables under the cobblestone streets how do they maintain the network or more important how do they upgrade it? Surely those 200 or 300 year old buildings have begun to fill up with appliances that draw a hell of a lot more power than they did 50 years ago.

Just curious, anyone know?
 
I have never visited Europe (yet) but was always impressed by the clean look of the streets in photos. One doesn't have to go to Europe to see the same effect in some smallish towns in Ontario as they also have no aerial Hydro visible on Main Street. These towns achieve the look by serving the buildings on Main Street from pole lines in the back lanes, is this how European towns do it as well?

If power is supplied by buried cables under the cobblestone streets how do they maintain the network or more important how do they upgrade it? Surely those 200 or 300 year old buildings have begun to fill up with appliances that draw a hell of a lot more power than they did 50 years ago.

Just curious, anyone know?

You definitely haven't been to Europe? Even the fridges are smaller, therefore draw less electricity. The apartments there have been using their own electric meters for decades, before North America even considered individual meters for apartments and condos. They even put in individual gas meters for each unit in a building.
 
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You definitely haven't been to Europe? Even the fridges are smaller, therefore draw less electricity. The apartments there have been using their own electric meters for decades, before North America even considered individual meters for apartments and condos. They even put in individual gas meters for each unit in a building.

There's a lot of variance. Scandinavians use double or triple the electricity of the French, German, and Italians. Canadians use 50% more than Americans. Those smaller appliances are steadily on the way out in favour of North American conveniences, just like driving to shop at places like this is now standard in France.

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I just don't accept the act of God mentality of Toronto Hydro. The CEO's attitude makes me kind of mad and I didn't even lose power. You can bury wires or not but the main issue is that the power infrastructure in the city is not acceptable. I will leave it to hydro experts to figure out how to best deal with the issue. I just don't want everyone to bury their head in the sand and say this is a one in 50 year event and go about their business. This is the second 1 in 50 year event we had in this city in the last 6 months. Times like these really make me feel that there is no one in charge who cares about anything long-term anywhere in this city. It gives one the impression that all these guys are just hanging around twiddling their thumbs and waiting for their pension plans to kick in.
 
I don't know about that. I get the impression that they are very much aware of the statistics, and expect similarly devastating weather events to happen sooner or later. Their problem is a lack of political will, and hence funding, to properly prepare for these events by for example burying power lines. Until the ratepayers are willing to spend the money needed to do this, these events will continue to happen.
 
Globe: Toronto Hydro rules out burying power lines as ice-storm recovery drags on

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-ice-storm-recovery-drags-on/article16109696/

Everyone: I noticed that this topic has become a pro or con about burying Toronto's electric power line grid and as we all know it is all about the astronomical cost
to actually get this accomplished...I remember after Hurricane Sandy talk about doing the same on Long Island and the cost was mentioned to be at least a billion
dollars or more and that ratepayers would fund the bulk of this major change...

Another thought about the power grid that no one thinks about this time of year is that in ways those overhead poles offer some protection for nearby buildings and homes
during thunderstorms with frequent cloud-to-ground lightning and without them there may be more damage to unprotected homes or other buildings in these events...

Most new construction has underground power lines in their design and that may be the only compromise here but unless a utility's rate paying base is willing to pay
large increases to pay for these improvements things will remain as they are - vulnerable to Nature's wrath at times...

LI MIKE
 
New power outages plague hydro reconnections:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...ologizes_for_florida_trip_over_christmas.html

A transformer went down in the Annex Friday afternoon, plunging more households into darkness, while thousands of others suffer without power or heat for the seventh day.

As tens of thousands of people wake up to their seventh day without power, the city is bracing for more weather-related outages — and some people who’ve been reconnected could be cut off once again.

Warmer temperatures and stronger winds could lead to new blackouts before the last of those who lost their power during last week’s ice storm get hooked back into the grid, Deputy Mayor Norm Kelly said Friday.

Kelly, who apologized for his overnight trip to Florida to visit family on Christmas while many Torontonians were still in the cold and dark, said progress is being made reconnecting households. Only 32,000 remain in the dark, but that number will likely “vacillate” in the days to come, he warned.

A hydro vault exploded near St. Clair Ave. W. and Bathurst St. Friday afternoon, causing a blackout that affected hundreds of houses in the Annex and shutting down the subway between Union Station and St. Clair West Station for several hours.

Toronto Hydro is also disconnecting power lines leading to individual houses if they are deemed unsafe, adding to homeowners’ frustration.

City officials would not give a target date for having power back to every household in the city, leaving some of the tens of thousands of people who already spent a cold and dark Christmas worrying they’ll face a new year without electricity or heat.

Mayor Rob Ford, whose own Etobicoke home was without power for two days, pledged to work around the clock until everyone has their lights back on but warned that it would still be several days before everyone would be reconnected.

“My job is to get the power back on for every resident and I’ll be holding press conferences every day until every single light is on in the city,” said Ford.

Ford pointed to good progress since the ice storm hit: 90 intersections remain without working traffic lights as of Friday morning and all fire stations had their electricity back. Four hundred and fifty people slept at city warming centres on the 26th, down from more than 1,000 a few days before.

Seventy-six public housing townhouses remain without power and all the apartment buildings are back online, Ford said.

But the push to re-energize households across the city is slowing, even as six crews from Ottawa and two from London are scheduled to join the 200 trucks currently working around the city on Saturday.

The main lines have been repaired and now the bucket trucks are making the rounds of dark houses to reconnect them one by one.

“In the early days, once we got mobilized, we were doing 50,000 a day and it looks as if, going forward, we may be pressed to do 10,000 a day,” Kelly said.

Premier Kathleen Wynne said the province is looking at the possibility of compensation for some financial losses residents may have incurred during the ice storm aftermath.

“We are looking into where there might the possibility to get some compensation . . . but, obviously, there are insurance claims that will be made after this whole thing is done,” Wynne told reporters Friday.

Wynne went on the defensive against criticism that the government hasn’t done enough to reassure Ontarians in the wake of the ice storm that cut a swath through southern Ontario.

In what has became a daily briefing since the storm struck almost more than a week ago, Wynne said members of her minority Liberal government have been “on the ground” making sure that everything possible was being done to restore power.

Toronto Hydro CEO Anthony Haines attempted to put to rest the lingering speculation that declaring a state of emergency would have improved relief efforts.

“The power could not have come on any faster as a result of a city-wide state of emergency,” Haines said, explaining that Toronto Hydro was at its own highest state of emergency as the storm hit on Saturday night.

Crews were mobilized and other utilities contacted for help before the storm, which Haines said caused the largest power outage in the city’s history, was even over.

Four days later, Kelly said he flew to Florida on Christmas Day to visit family and came back on Boxing Day. Despite being in constant touch with senior staff and the premier during his trip, he realized he was needed in Toronto.

“I tried to balance a very personal commitment to my extended family at Christmastime with my obligations with the residents of Toronto, but I found that there are times when that balance is impossible,” Kelly said. “So to those residents who have been affronted by my behaviour, I want to convey to them a very sincere apology. I’ve learned the lesson and I won’t forget.”

Even as power was being restored Friday, the mayor warned that all child-care centres in Toronto public schools are closed until they can receive safety inspections.

TDSB spokesperson Shari Schwartz-Maltz said 35 schools remain without power and 12 of those house daycares, but all 600 schools will have to be inspected once the power comes on.

“The sites that have power and pass safety inspections with no problems this weekend will open on Monday,” she said.

For two days, police have been canvassing apartment buildings in Scarborough to identify vulnerable residents. They checked eight towers in the Kingston Rd. and Lawrence Ave. E. area on Friday but did not find anyone who needed to be moved to a warming centre or hospital, said spokesperson Victor Kwong.

Cleanup crews began scouring the city Friday, clearing fallen branches from the major roadways and turning their attention to residential streets and sidewalks as things progress. City staff estimate that 20 per cent of the tree canopy has been lost since the storm.

While warmer temperatures will bring relief to those still without power, city parks director Richard Ubbens warned people to keep their kids out from under trees, where there’s still a risk of falling ice and wood
 
Sometimes burying the electrical cables is not the answer. How quickly people forgot last summer, with flooding. Electricity and water do not mix. Sometimes having the electrical wires overhead would have kept the hydro still flowing, overhead at least. Most likely the answer would be to bury the cables in high ground, but overhead in flood prone areas, if possible. Any buried transformers should have a dike to keep water out.

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Sometimes burying the electrical cables is not the answer. How quickly people forgot last summer, with flooding. Electricity and water do not mix. Sometimes having the electrical wires overhead would have kept the hydro still flowing, overhead at least. Most likely the answer would be to bury the cables in high ground, but overhead in flood prone areas, if possible. Any buried transformers should have a dike to keep water out.

This is an excellent point. Stuff like this is why I think the ongoing outages are the smaller of two problems, the other being that this city does not have a plan for when tends of thousands of residents are without power for several days at a stretch, in winter. There is no way to guarantee that power outages like this won't happen again - weather happens, and there are only so many work crews and they can only work so fast. But that shouldn't mean people just do without, struggle on their own, too-bad-so-sad. There should be more assistance available. THAT is something the City CAN improve.
 

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