When you ride the 192 Airport Rocket, usually about half the travel time is spent on Dundas St, even though it is a small fraction of the total length of the route. It's clear that Dundas is congested with buses, almost all of which would still be there even if a Dundas LRT was built.

A one-stop subway extension to the East Mall makes a lot of sense for providing a guaranteed, quantifiable reduction in transit travel times. Especially for those routes that use the 427. It would make sense for all GO buses that currently pass by on the 427 to stop there, increasing its value as a hub, The current station at Kipling would simply add too much travel time. It would also increase the feasibility of Brampton Transit service to the Bloor-Danforth.

All that alone should justify an extension. But toss in the fact that you've got ripe development lands comparable in size to Concord Park Place and land for the station that has been offered for free and I don't understand how any transit advocate couldn't possibly be actively advocating such a project.
 
Well said. And looking at what they're proposing for Kipling (at least the proposals that had been made public) it's fairly obvious that the proposal is bit of a wasted opportunity. And considering that the entire stretch of Dundas from Kipling to 427 is ripe for redevelopment, it's time to plan for the area coherently.

The transit hub at East Mall can also potentially utilize some of the hard to urbanize space that's right next to the 427 - waste not want not.

AoD
 
It's pretty hard to believe that so much quick advice has been offered (to Metrolinx?) regarding the integrity of support structures for a condo, without actually looking at the blueprints for the building in question. Why so much defeatist speculation on the unbuildability of a subway through here? Structural engineers live for these kinds of challenges (and I think this challenge has been overstated from the get-go).

Temporarily shore up the south end of the garage that (will) remain.
Drive some piles into the ground south of where the subway would run.
Remove the garage that's in the way of the subway.
Extend the foundation of the garage above and below where the subway would run out to the new piles, which are designed to buttress the whole foundation.
Build a box for the subway to run through, and replace any lost garage spaces on the floor above the subway line, top with an extended garden deck with a new gazebo for all gazebo-loving residents.
Continue subway at grade to East Mall, with new bridges at Shorncliffe and East Mall.
Add bus-only ramps to 427 for direct access.

Result: A seamless, efficient transit system, attractive to riders, far less susceptible to congestion on west-end streets, and a purpose in life for Metrolinx.

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Well put, Interchange. The "can't-do" attitude in this city is often frustrating.
 
A round of applause for Interchange!

edit: I think this is a great project, and I don't think the TTC should get away with dismissing it out of hand like they did. It's a little small scale for me to bother talking to people at the province about. I think I'll email Councillor Milczyn who advocated the project in the first place!
 
It's probably even easier to shift the rail tracks south - since there isn't really anything I would consider as "permanent structures" there anyways - and that spares the TTC from having to deal with that condo tower. Get rid of Kipling GO - and have the regional terminal at East Mall instead.

AoD
 
The "can't-do" attitude in this city is often frustrating.
Click to expand...

It's also frustrating when you're pounced on in this forum for pointing out this "can't do" attitude.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
It's probably even easier to shift the rail tracks south - since there isn't really anything I would consider as "permanent structures" there anyways - and that spares the TTC from having to deal with that condo tower. Get rid of Kipling GO - and have the regional terminal at East Mall instead.

AoD
Click to expand...

Good idea about the GO Terminal. In regards to the CP tracks though, the hydro corridor would have to be moved - or at least the masts would have to have a smaller footprint - for any southward shifting.

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PS Ganj - Don't tell us we don't have a can't do attitude!!
 
I still think running on top of the garage would be a good option as long as the slope isn't too steep...the only casualty would be a few trees and the view from the gazebo, as well as perhaps two parking spaces which will be taken up by something like reinforcing pillars.

AlvinofDiaspar said:
That's misleading. I don't think TC is proposing properties along arterial roads to be expropriated for engineering or densification purposes. What you have suggested is using eminent domain powers to acquire a property for such ends. This argument has nothing to do with the desirability of an extension to East Mall (which I support).
Click to expand...

No, it's really not misleading. There's a double standard here: Transit City is explicitly being used as a redevelopment tool, yet a subway extension must be built without 'touching' anything, even when almost every property along the way will/would be redeveloped. The only difference is that the condo's parking garage may be altered to build the transit line instead of the transit line triggering alteration of the garage...it all turns out the same in the end, but that trivial difference is being used to condemn the subway project (if memory serves me correctly, something similar happened with the Spadina extension, where an at-grade option running through an empty field was nixed because it would be an obstacle to the future expansion of the UPS building on Steeles).

An aside, but I really doubt the entirety of Transit City will be built without expropriating a single sliver of land for stations, ROWs, tunnels, maintenance yards, etc.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
I still think running on top of the garage would be a good option as long as the slope isn't too steep...the only casualty would be a few trees and the view from the gazebo, as well as perhaps two parking spaces which will be taken up by something like reinforcing pillars.
Click to expand...

Owing to the way the condo sits on the slope, were the subway to continue at the same grade it currently ends at, it would likely pass through the lowest two floors of the garage.

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interchange42 said:
Owing to the way the condo sits on the slope, were the subway to continue at the same grade it currently ends at, it would likely pass through the lowest two floors of the garage.
Click to expand...

I meant the slope needed to build a little 'berm bridge' and literally go over the garage. Wanna run down there with a tape measure and calculate the slope the tracks would need to get over the garage? :)
 
Oh where oh where is maps.live.birdseye.actualsize when you need it? We deserve this technology NOW!

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For those who love reading maps, here is what the real view is from ground level for the area. 360 view from east end of platform. 360 view from west end. Photo's of the station area

To move the CP tracks to the south, the Kipling bridge will have to be 100% rebuilt to get tracks further to the south. At the same time, major movement of the transmission towers at the transform station will have a major impact on the area itself, let along the $$ to do it.

The Hydro corridor can be move to the south using today support structures with no problem other than cost. They will have to be in place before the grid is move. At the time of move, it will have an impact on Toronto system as it not a simple move.

The tracks going into the container yard will have an impact on the length of storage both in the main yard as well in the storage yard.

To remove the parking area on the south side of the condo will have structural impact on the condo itself, let along the noise of the subway passing the building.

Getting the subway under the parking garage to the north will have issues, but can be over come. The grade will have to start at the end of the Kipling structure, not where the tracks end. The whole parking lot and road will have to be close to allow the subway to get underground.

To tear down that condo will cost anywhere between $200-$300 million if not more. The owners will be asking triple or more the cost they bought their unite at.

There is a push to get the new MT/GO terminal and LRT stop review as there are issues that were over look. Some thinking is to put the LRT underground for the station. After talking to the GO people, GO buses may not be stopping there after all.

Time to bit the bullet and put the LRT on the top level of the terminal where there is provision for one now as the smart cards will be around when the line opens up anyway. It will allow the 512 to stop there also.

One of the new bus bay for expansion for TTC will be for an artic bus. Where are the artic's?

Not a simple task to do anything in this area when it comes to moving the tracks as everything will have major disruption pertaining to +ALL+ rail use.

There is not much room to the north of the exist tracks west of the condo and that means more land will have to be bought up.

At the end of the day, the subway has to go west and we should be doing it now. The ward councilor wants the subway to go west now.
 
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