AlvinofDiaspar said:
One of the most amazing thing about Hafencity is that it is designed with flooding and climate change in mind. Having said that I think Hafencity is lower density than what's proposed for Villiers - there are barely any real highrises in the former (and I believe one of the few - Elbtower - is currently under receivership)

AoD
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HafenCity is designed to accommodate 14,000 residents and 45,000 jobs in 157 hectares, for 95 residents + 286 jobs per hectare = 375 residents + jobs per hectare. This is definitely on the low side of density compared to other districts in Toronto.

By comparison the recently revised Villiers Precinct plan calls for 9,000 units/15,000 residents and 2,900 jobs on 19.4 hectares of developable land, or 773 residents + 149 jobs = 922 people + jobs per hectare (with a much heavier skew to residents). So we could try to get a form more like HafenCity but that would likely require a substantial downward revision down in density targets. All this as noted by NL.

What I kind of wonder is why we feel constrained to developing these kind of midrise districts on brownfield industrial site redevelopments. Maybe this waterfront site proximate to downtown is going to be developed more densely, but I can see something like Hafencity being quite popular/desirable in some of the inner suburbs, along Line 2 for instance.
 
Not sure how we're supposed to get the pedestrian street level feel pictured above with the big box podium development mentality and our city's obsession with cars. I mean, we don't even have any people only designated streets here. It's all rum, bumper to bumper and the lash... /sigh
 
I went to Hafencity back in 2021, very cool area.
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UtakataNoAnnex said:
Not sure how we're supposed to get the pedestrian street level feel pictured above with the big box podium development mentality and our city's obsession with cars. I mean, we don't even have any people only designated streets here. It's all rum, bumper to bumper and the lash... /sigh
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I know, just look at that one picture from above of Hafen City - midrises lining extra wide sidewalks with trees, and only a measly two narrow lanes for cars. Toronto seems to have incredible difficulty building roads like that even though it should be very easy. This city frustrates me to no end.
 
Now that the Keating Channel isn't the main outflow for the Don, and with the area being converted into residential, I wonder if the city would ever consider allowing it to be lined with houseboats. 🤔
 
coldblood said:
Now that the Keating Channel isn't the main outflow for the Don, and with the area being converted into residential, I wonder if the city would ever consider allowing it to be lined with houseboats. 🤔
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I doubt it - it is still going to be a rushing torrent if/when we have flood conditions.
 
coldblood said:
Now that the Keating Channel isn't the main outflow for the Don, and with the area being converted into residential, I wonder if the city would ever consider allowing it to be lined with houseboats. 🤔
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Although it seems counter intuitive, the keating channel because of its depth will still convey the majority of the water from the Don River. The new river will function more as a relief valve during major storm events.
 
Towered said:
I know, just look at that one picture from above of Hafen City - midrises lining extra wide sidewalks with trees, and only a measly two narrow lanes for cars. Toronto seems to have incredible difficulty building roads like that even though it should be very easy. This city frustrates me to no end.
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Front Street in Canary District comes to mind. That said the ROW is waaaay too wide (despite a narrow road). It's 50m between buildings of mostly empty sidewalk.

When visiting Hafencity it felt a lot like a better executed version of Canary district. 14m between buildings vs 50m.
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Towered said:
I know, just look at that one picture from above of Hafen City - midrises lining extra wide sidewalks with trees, and only a measly two narrow lanes for cars. Toronto seems to have incredible difficulty building roads like that even though it should be very easy. This city frustrates me to no end.
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Amen, my green Tri-Klops friend.
 
Towered said:
I know, just look at that one picture from above of Hafen City - midrises lining extra wide sidewalks with trees, and only a measly two narrow lanes for cars. Toronto seems to have incredible difficulty building roads like that even though it should be very easy. This city frustrates me to no end.
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100% . But, I took a quick look at Google Maps, having never been to Hamburg before, and it seems this area has 3 subway stops, and 2 subway lines nearby and a RER just on the border, and at least 2 bus lines crossing through. That is a level of transit that is rare in our city, and not anything close to what we'll see in the portlands. Most people are expected to be using cars here, and until we start overbuilding transit, this is going to continue. Our main hope for improvement in the short term will be an increase in mode share for walking and cycling, but that's harder in our climate, and it also would require more businesses being mixed into these developments.
 
goreckm said:
100% . But, I took a quick look at Google Maps, having never been to Hamburg before, and it seems this area has 3 subway stops, and 2 subway lines nearby and a RER just on the border, and at least 2 bus lines crossing through. That is a level of transit that is rare in our city, and not anything close to what we'll see in the portlands. Most people are expected to be using cars here, and until we start overbuilding transit, this is going to continue. Our main hope for improvement in the short term will be an increase in mode share for walking and cycling, but that's harder in our climate, and it also would require more businesses being mixed into these developments.
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I think the use of the term "overbuilding transit" is the key here. It is not overbuilding. It is transit. We are developing the entire east bayfront and portlands as if its main purpose is to handle 3 eighteen-wheelers in each direction at any given time.
 
Grimace said:
I think the use of the term "overbuilding transit" is the key here. It is not overbuilding. It is transit. We are developing the entire east bayfront and portlands as if its main purpose is to handle 3 eighteen-wheelers in each direction at any given time.
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Don't forget the when WT started to work on Queens Quay East their (and the City's) mantra was "Transit First". I had really hoped for more than having the 65 Parliament bus brought a block further south!
 
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