[ttk77]

Fair enough, but Seattle's waterfont is now completed is it not? It seems, certainly to the layman, that projects and plans get undone here more than elsewhere. My enquiry speaks more to the long and failed history surrounding developing the waterfront here, which someone else on here alluded to- why so long and contentious? Given the broader history of waterfront development it seems to have taken an inordinately long time to address even small parcels on the central waterfront.

Past plans failed because as soon as a new politician got into office they'd tear up the old ones to put their own stamp on the city. This is exactly what's happening AGAIN. Giving control of the port lands to the Fords is not the solution to the problem, it's a continuation of it.

 

[Bogtrotter]

Oh lord, judging from CanadianNational's post this is not looking all that good.

 

[Marko]

That's an interesting chart Matt. It seems the "likely to back Ford" will have 20 votes to the 18 votes "likely to oppose Ford". There are 7 swing votes, but if the percentages are to be continued, most will also vote with Ford.

It could be that it's not a matter of "if" this happens, but "how". Opponents may have to choose between figuring out ways to make it work in the best possible way, or opposing it and delaying things even further.

 

[TonyV]

Having taken a full day to look at and digest these proposals, my humble opinion is that this is transparently politics played at its worst. By that, I mean that there is no win-win in this at all, it's win-lose, and there is no honour to it.

Here is what's going on: Douggie wants the mayor's chair in 2014. These sketches have the suburban mentality stamped all over them. The political takeover necessary to effect all of this would, in Dougie's machinations, play well to the suburban crowd. It is now fairly plain that Robbie is not competent, and is allowing his little brother Douggie to take centre stage.

As for the proposals, it is mostly crap. What is with those highrises? They're a forest of identical buildings all stamped out at various heights. Has no one told the "architect" that this idea is now officially out of style? No one has told these guys that a variety of complementary styles is the way to go ... in other words, the existing plans.

City Council has work to do.

 

[ttk77]

That's an interesting chart Matt. It seems the "likely to back Ford" will have 20 votes to the 18 votes "likely to oppose Ford". There are 7 swing votes, but if the percentages are to be continued, most will also vote with Ford.

It could be that it's not a matter of "if" this happens, but "how". Opponents may have to choose between figuring out ways to make it work in the best possible way, or opposing it and delaying things even further.

Taking the list at face value, it doesn't look good. I predict though that a number of those expected "Yes" votes, specifically a few of those who have no vote registered for the exec meeting will either be conspicuously absent on the 21st or may even outright vote 'no'.

 

[Dilla]

Opponents may have to choose between figuring out ways to make it work in the best possible way, or opposing it and delaying things even further.

Sounds like what I was going to say about messing with the original waterfront plans in the first place.

 

[Tuscani01]

Ok,

I cant stand Ford and Co. and was ready to shoot this proposal down...

But... I like it. Its everything I wanted to see in the Portlands. I was never a fan of the winning design because it ripped up the unique features of the Portlands that make them the Portlands - The canals. This plan embraces the canals, lining them with promenades and development that can support shops, cafes and much more. There is ample green space within blocks and along the South, as well as the circular trail that cuts through the development. The sightline to the CN Tower is also a well thought out feature that links the development to the city. I also love that the Hearn is being saved and turned into a sports centre, as well as having an observation deck on the smoke stack (though that giant ball looks quite tacky). The monorail from Union will definitely help connect the neighbourhood to the rest of the City, while also bringing rapid transit to the Pan Am Village and East Donlands. (Though I hope the Queens Quay East extension still goes forward to provide more local service)

All in all, its everything I wanted and more!

Can't believe its coming from the Fords, and can't believe they finally dropped the stadium idea.

 

[nfitz]

Seattle's plans date back to the 60s ...

The very narrow strip right along the waterfront might, but planning for the nearby Monorail and the Seattle Center goes back to the 1950s ... and it was always planned to be more than just the 2 stations.

Fair enough, but Seattle's waterfont is now completed is it not?

No where close. They have a Gardiner-type highway right along the waterfront - the Alaskan Way Viaduct. They've been planning and gyrating about tearing this down, and putting it in a tunnel. I've lost track if it's on-again or off-again ... I thought it was off-again, but the Washington State website seems to suggest they've just decided to tear it down - starting in 2 months time - http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/viaduct/

So we're perhaps another half-decade away from completion of that aspect.

In no way would I suggest that Seattle is a template Toronto should be looking at. Seattle planning makes Toronto look very focused.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Oh lord, judging from CanadianNational's post this is not looking all that good.

Strange, i guess it all boils down to left-leaning councillors vs the right leaning councillors.
I guess it's a thing of the past, and there is just not enough left-wing opposition down at City Hall anymore..

 

[Bogtrotter]

Sure- until the next lefty mayor is voted in and the project gets undone again

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Ok,

I cant stand Ford and Co. and was ready to shoot this proposal down...

But... I like it. Its everything I wanted to see in the Portlands. I was never a fan of the winning design because it ripped up the unique features of the Portlands that make them the Portlands - The canals. This plan embraces the canals, lining them with promenades and development that can support shops, cafes and much more. There is ample green space within blocks and along the South, as well as the circular trail that cuts through the development. The sightline to the CN Tower is also a well thought out feature that links the development to the city. I also love that the Hearn is being saved and turned into a sports centre, as well as having an observation deck on the smoke stack (though that giant ball looks quite tacky). The monorail from Union will definitely help connect the neighbourhood to the rest of the City, while also bringing rapid transit to the Pan Am Village and East Donlands. (Though I hope the Queens Quay East extension still goes forward to provide more local service)

All in all, its everything I wanted and more!

Can't believe its coming from the Fords, and can't believe they finally dropped the stadium idea.

The stadium is coming later.

 

[Dilla]

Ok,

I cant stand Ford and Co. and was ready to shoot this proposal down...

But... I like it. Its everything I wanted to see in the Portlands. I was never a fan of the winning design because it ripped up the unique features of the Portlands that make them the Portlands - The canals. This plan embraces the canals, lining them with promenades and development that can support shops, cafes and much more. There is ample green space within blocks and along the South, as well as the circular trail that cuts through the development. The sightline to the CN Tower is also a well thought out feature that links the development to the city. I also love that the Hearn is being saved and turned into a sports centre, as well as having an observation deck on the smoke stack (though that giant ball looks quite tacky). The monorail from Union will definitely help connect the neighbourhood to the rest of the City, while also bringing rapid transit to the Pan Am Village and East Donlands. (Though I hope the Queens Quay East extension still goes forward to provide more local service)

All in all, its everything I wanted and more!

Can't believe its coming from the Fords, and can't believe they finally dropped the stadium idea.

I really doubt what we'll see will be anything like what's been shown here (don't forget, even though ford said it was a "plan" the planner he hired said it was not. This is just musing). This will be sold off to the highest bidder to do "whatever". Mr. Ford is much more concerned about the money coming in to fund Sheppard than with proper planning.

 

[GraphicMatt]

The stadium is coming later.

The stadium is not part of this 'vision.'

Which is the other point to make to this thread: be careful in interpreting these photos as anything more than an advanced game of Sim City. It's nowhere close to being detailed enough to be called a 'plan', and its creators have said as much.

 

[Marko]

The stadium is not part of this 'vision.'

Which is the other point to make to this thread: be careful in interpreting these photos as anything more than an advanced game of Sim City. It's nowhere close to being detailed enough to be called a 'plan', and its creators have said as much.

As mentioned in your blog, the WT wasn't much more than that either. The buildings are simple placeholders for something that could be, while the important things to look at are the street plan, transit plan, public space and parkland - things the city does actually have control over.

I think if we look at the key design elements in either, they are both heavily focused on high density, mixed used development with a heavy focus on being pedestrian and recreation friendly. The differences are the way the flood plain is addressed, the location and amount of parkland, and the inclusion of the attention getters that are probably the keys to getting shovels in the ground. If you strip away the frills, I think some of the design elements of the new vision are actually preferable to the old vision, while the type of transit and amount of shoreline greenspace is preferable from the old one.

The Ford plan may actually have just as much parkland overall, but it's spread out in narrower bands than large expanses. To be honest, I'd probably look to sacrifice a half block of development on either side of the new north-south park allowing it to be expanded, then allow for slightly higher structures to line the sides of it as these would be more sought after by eventual buyers, a la Central Park in NY.

Also taking a closer look, it seems the 'mall' is entirely outdoors and has some sort of criss-cross overhead element (borrowing from Pritzker, maybe), but which may also allow it to be covered in the winter?

 

[Dilla]

Also taking a closer look, it seems the 'mall' is entirely outdoors and has some sort of criss-cross overhead element (borrowing from Pritzker, maybe), but which may also allow it to be covered in the winter?

Taking a closer look at what? the renderdoodle we've been shown? No one has said any of this can or will be built. This is not a plan, and is subject to whatever changes Rob and Doug think of once it's taken over by the city.