hawc said:
Why has it taken so long for Waterfront Toronto to do anything and why are the Fords able to move so quickly?

Whatever your politics are on the matter it's a very reasonable question.

7 years of environmental assessments?! It's a freaking wasteland down there. Start building something already!
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Rome was not built in a day, but if they had tried to build it in a day we would have never heard of it.
 
neubilder said:
Rome was not built in a day, but if they had tried to build it in a day we would have never heard of it.
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Beautifully put... I agree that planning is key here with so much neglected land.... I see it like this.... Unlike a condo which has very limited amount of space, smaller budget, one simple, repetative goal....this land has the variety and space to create neighborhoods, parks, retail, office buildings, condos, etc all in this one project.... While a condo project is just a condo project... As simple as an office project is an office project.... The smaller projects take less time... And waterfeont toronto is no small project
 
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toronto3 said:
Beautifully put... I agree that planning is key here with so much neglected land.... I see it like this.... Unlike a condo which has very limited amount of space, smaller budget, one simple, repetative goal....this land has the variety and space to create neighborhoods, parks, retail, office buildings, condos, etc all in this one project.... While a condo project is just a condo project... As simple as an office project is an office project.... The smaller projects take less time... And waterfeont toronto is no small project
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Come-on guys most of these type of plans end up not being reality.....either because the crown corporation is to slow in the development or they just dont have the infastructure funds, etc..... and if sold to the private sector, the greedy private developers build beyond what was originally planned with poor designs and inflated density.
Dont know, im kind of mixed on this whole thing.

Here is an example of what was planned years ago by Project Toronto before sold to various developers...are we really now better off than what was originally planned.:confused:

MetroCentre.jpg


This whole Portlands fiasco might just be another one of those visions to bite the dust.
The top 10 unbuilt projects in Toronto.....http://www.blogto.com/toronto/lists/the_top_10_unbuilt_projects_in_toronto/
 
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Is it a typo or are the Ford's renaming Union Station to Central Station?

The rendering looks fine. I don't really have so much issue with intensified land use. I question why the city can't simply provide their priorities to Waterfront Toronto. Inside Waterfront Toronto costs are split 3 ways, outside the city is on its own. Inside Waterfront Toronto there is an agency that has proven it can deliver, inside TEDCO there is an agency that seems quite incompetent. Inside Waterfront Toronto we can be more certain that things are done properly where lands are sold on the condition that the renderings will resemble reality because they create detailed block plans, outside we don't know.

Interesting that the renderings all the main streets show 6 lanes of traffic and an elevated transit line. In the Cherry Street roundabout it shows what looks like an Inukshuk but then it is labeled memorial statue so it might be Rob Ford. Love the cherry blossoms though.

LRV = Monorail? I don't get it. It will go to Ashbridges LRV storage?

What the heck is going on with the rail corridor in those renderings?

If anyone believes it will take less than 25 years to build that they are out to lunch.
 
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Marko said:
I don't disagree with this - but since property value is pretty much always going up - you could always be saying "it will be worth more later" and putting off the sale in perpetuity. At some point you have to say the timing is right and go forward.
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Property value does not always go up in relative terms. Property values of today need to be compared to property values of yesterday in 2011 dollar equivalents. Also, property value only goes up (in equivalent dollars) when the desirability of an area goes up. Selling the land after improvements like infrastructure and parks means getting more money for the sale. Take a show like Flip-That-House as an example... they buy a house cheap, make improvements, and sell it for more than the cost they paid and the cost of the improvements. Sell now and you are selling at a discount and also are losing control of the public domain improvements.

Say they are sufficiently reigned in and in the end, only sell off say, 30% of the land to cover the costs of any new EAs, flood plain requirements, remediation and whatever shortfall the city may have after belt tightening ($400 million?) and get somewhere around $2 billion for that land. They still hold the remaining property worth billions more and can spread out the sale of those lands at a futher 10% per yer so the sale spans 8 years in total as the valu of the property is increased by the redevlopment itself. This spreads out the development timelines and creates a very large revenue stream for almost a decade that not only pushes portlands development further, but likely generates revenues that can be allocated to other large ticket infrastructure that everyone wants - like more WT completions, higher order transit expansion, etc...
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Who cares that they only sell 30% of the land now? Nothing the developers do on their land will deliver public domain improvements that cause the land surrounding it to be greater than if they had made the public domain / infrastructure improvements first, then sold that same 30% of the land, then took that money to build more public domain / infrastructure improvements, and then sold the other parts of the land.

It should not be done to articifically keep property taxes low, though. Those should increase at the rate of inflation at minimum - but I think as long as the right controls are put in place and the vision can be adjusted to the approval of a larger number of stakeholders, then why wait?
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The Fords putting controls on what private developers can do?
 
The monorail portion will never {thank god} get built.
I am, as most of you know, a fam of monorails but this is just going to be a childish circular route that has stations every 2 blocks. Not only will it have little use but will be slow and damn expensive due to the number of grade separated stations that are planned.
That's I guess one good point..................so many station will result in a very high price that no private investor would every invest in it.
 
Long time listener first time caller.

This new proposal looks like it was designed by a freemason.

The Cherry Street Roundabout with Coronation Park Inukshuk (and the devotional site line to the big tower) are supposed to have a big el train run over top (not shown on renders). Kind of takes the effect away.

Of course this is just a big bait and switch. But what's the deal with the transit plan in the slides (on Matt Elliott's site). Has a DLR and the on-shelf west end QQ LRV. And no Sheppard extension. Was this sneaked into the presentation by a DLR nut without the councillor from Etobicoke North noticing? I'd sell the Portlands to Smart Centres for that transit plan. We can always expropriate later. Smart Centres will drive down the property value on expropriation.
 
Bait and switch is exactly what this is.

Fords hire planners to put together splashy proposal hoping everyone falls for the ridiculous scheme. Once in control, the wolves are in the hen house - they're free to start selling off parcels of Toronto's waterfront to buddies with whom they've already conspired.

That this is happening in 2011 in Canada's largest city is freakier than the twilight zone - it would make a great comedy series if it wasn't so damn real.
 
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Automation Gallery said:
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Come-on guys most of these type of plans end up not being reality....

This whole Portlands fiasco might just be another one of those visions to bite the dust.
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Did you not notice that the Ford's have already killed Transit City, the Fort York pedestrian bridge, and many others? This is real and it's happening. I have to shake my head when I read some of your inane posts, and there are so many of them.
 
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neubilder said:
Did you not notice that the Ford's have already killed Transit City, the Fort York pedestrian bridge, and many others? This is real and it's happening.
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Gee, i dont know....A 21st century 3rd world above-grade grand transportation plan, and a 25 million dollar high-end over priced pedestrian bridge of taxpayers money to please certain folks...hmm:confused:
Like you have said many times before.... its your civic duty to trash people like Ford, and im also assuming by your posts anyone that supports him, but be realistic my friend, this city doesn't just revolve around "neubilder"
 
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Saving taxpayers money-that's just too rich. This bafflegab reminds me of Mike Harris saying something to the effect that his government of the day was in the business of " getting out of government ". Some party stalwarts probably still wince at the inanity of that remark. We elect leaders to lead, not to orchestrate fire sales. " Saving taxpayers money ", is a loaded phrase that got this chump elected from a weak field of candidates. Squandering taxpayers assets is something Rob Ford will answer for.
 
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