Did Transit City really have above-grade sections? I must not have paid enough attention or something.
 
Almost every major European city employs some sort of above ground transit in conjunction with subway networks. There is nothing wrong with on or above grade trains if they are properly integrated.

Now back to the waterfront....
 
In order to keep score accurately in this Waterfront game I think we should be able to assign a value to the land that is not a result of hyperbolic projections offered by the various players and teams.
The actual value of real estate and horses is not your expectation it is what a prospective purchaser offers you, have any concrete documented offers been made for any parcel anywhere recently?

Suppose the City held an auction and no one came? I can't imagine a sober developer being interested in building anything in the portlands for decades. The only significant developement lately that comes to mind is the Film studios which I understand had to be bailed out by the City.

Six months of our year is not pleasant enough to want to bundle up the family for a Ferris wheel ride.
Re-fitting the Hearn plant as a skating facility sounds lovely except it couldn't possibily be in a worse location if it is meant to serve the people who need ice time.
People who stay in 5 star hotels attend theatres and museums, why would they choose to locate miles from those attractions?

Successive politicians and activists plan a never-ending great game but it is a game that no one is going to win until demand shows up and brings the money.
 
hawc said:
it's silly for one side to make out the other side to be secretive
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The Executive Committee's handling of this process hasn't exactly been a shining example of transparency.
 
spider said:
In order to keep score accurately in this Waterfront game I think we should be able to assign a value to the land that is not a result of hyperbolic projections offered by the various players and teams.
The actual value of real estate and horses is not your expectation it is what a prospective purchaser offers you, have any concrete documented offers been made for any parcel anywhere recently?

Suppose the City held an auction and no one came? I can't imagine a sober developer being interested in building anything in the portlands for decades. The only significant developement lately that comes to mind is the Film studios which I understand had to be bailed out by the City.

Six months of our year is not pleasant enough to want to bundle up the family for a Ferris wheel ride.
Re-fitting the Hearn plant as a skating facility sounds lovely except it couldn't possibily be in a worse location if it is meant to serve the people who need ice time.
People who stay in 5 star hotels attend theatres and museums, why would they choose to locate miles from those attractions?

Successive politicians and activists plan a never-ending great game but it is a game that no one is going to win until demand shows up and brings the money.
Click to expand...

No one is coming because the land has not been formally prepped for sale yet. However, I can't say that people won't want to buy the land once you have a solid plan (not 'a vision') in place. Take for example, the East Bayfront- it stood empty under the Toronto Port Lands Company, which did nothing for the land. Under WaterfrontTO, however, plans were made, the land was cleaned; and now we have a Moshdie, a Foster and a Pelli on the way.
 
Regardless of what is built on the Port Lands, it will need infrastructure to be built, which is most often done by government.

So we can sell off at a bargain now before infrastructure is put into place, or we can build infrastructure (which is needed anyway!) and get a better price for the land later because it is more valuable with the needed hydro, water, transit, parks, greenspace, and other public amenities that make city living so enjoyable, put into place.

I went down to Sherbourne Common and Sugar Beach last weekend, and damn, there is some seriously excellent work going on there. These are quality parks & public spaces that will stand the test of time and I am sure are already driving up land values there. I'm sure Monde will sell out very quickly.
 
My prediction of how the Ford Scam works (and trust me, this is scam): Sell port land for a song to Ford friendly developers; developers sit on land indefinitely; new mayor elected in 2014; WT Portlands plan resurrected; now private land expropriated for higher price by WT; developers laugh all the way to bank.
 
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1051931--waterfront-toronto-keen-to-collaborate-on-port-lands

Two very different philosophies at play here:

1.) WaterfrontTO
The agency, which has built projects including Sugar Beach east of Yonge St., has already spent more than $120 million on protecting the eastern waterfront from a catastrophic flood, including a berm at the West Donlands.

The plan is to finish flood protection and install infrastructure, including sewers and roads, starting in the middle of the Port Lands and then radiating out, using profits from sales of each parcel to service the next patch.
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Campbell said he understands the financial straits, and said it would be up to three levels of government to negotiate a different deal for Toronto if that’s what the city wants.

“Our business model is to take the seed capital (from initial sales), re-invest it to develop the stakeholders’ lands, sell that, generate returns, reinvest and roll down the street.
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Councillor Mike Del Grande, the city’s budget chief, noted Tuesday that, under the current arrangement, the proceeds of land sales go to Waterfront Toronto.
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2.) Ford
But the driving reason seems to be the city’s gaping budget deficit and Ford’s election vow to fill it.

[...]

If the city gets out of the Waterfront Toronto agreement, every dollar from sales of the city’s 263 hectares in the Port Lands would go straight into the city’s coffers.
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Guess which one will generate a higher-quality product in the end.
 
Seems worth posting this link considering this is the agency the Ford administration will be castrating.

http://2011.waterfrontoronto.ca

Notably the investments collected from land sales are not only investing in the waterfront around the sites being sold, they are being invested across the entire waterfront from the the Etobicoke River to Rouge River, and in connecting transit projects such as TTC's Union Station Second Platform. When you take away the land from Waterfront Toronto you take away its ability to do any of the projects it would have funded.
 
EnviroTO said:
Seems worth posting this link considering this is the agency the Ford administration will be castrating.

http://2011.waterfrontoronto.ca

Notably the investments collected from land sales are not only investing in the waterfront around the sites being sold, they are being invested across the entire waterfront from the the Etobicoke River to Rouge River, and in connecting transit projects such as TTC's Union Station Second Platform. When you take away the land from Waterfront Toronto you take away its ability to do any of the projects it would have funded.
Click to expand...

That sounds like money being redistributed. Do you know who redistributes money? Socialists! Giorgio gonna be upset!
 
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