jaco_says said:
My biggest disappointment with these plans is the incredibly width of the ROWs. Fees incredibly suburban. Why are there turn lanes here? Seems like it will create another cold and inhospitable public realm similar to the Wes Don lands.
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I think the West Don Lands have a great public realm, with a higher standard for parks, landscaping, pavements, and pedestrian spaces than what you typically see in the city. They just don't yet have the vitality to make the area feel animated and lived in, but the vitality will come in time as more people move in and businesses set up shop.
 
jaco_says said:
My biggest disappointment with these plans is the incredibly width of the ROWs. Fees incredibly suburban. Why are there turn lanes here? Seems like it will create another cold and inhospitable public realm similar to the Wes Don lands.
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My concern with the width is the long signal cycles that will be required to accommodate pedestrians crossing the ROW. It's very hard to do good transit signal priority when it takes ~30s just to clear the crosswalk. I'm skeptical that the city can make a street with that geometry functional for pedestrians, cyclists, and transit.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Yup, the west donlands probably have less than a quarter of their final population right now. Give it a few years as the next phases of development are finished.
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The space will never feel intimate. You can add tons of people and it will still feel cold. They even have street parking! It would have been so easy to make the ROWs narrower. Love the park though, completely the opposite with lots of small spaces.
 
smably said:
My concern with the width is the long signal cycles that will be required to accommodate pedestrians crossing the ROW. It's very hard to do good transit signal priority when it takes ~30s just to clear the crosswalk. I'm skeptical that the city can make a street with that geometry functional for pedestrians, cyclists, and transit.
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you see this on Cherry, and even Spadina. The signal cycles are so long that transit moves quite slowly. The King / Cherry intersection in particular is hilariously long, probably a 4 minute cycle period.
 
innsertnamehere said:
you see this on Cherry, and even Spadina. The signal cycles are so long that transit moves quite slowly. The King / Cherry intersection in particular is hilariously long, probably a 4 minute cycle period.
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The one that was glacial for years (don't know if it's changed now, I avoid it) was the (north leg) Cherry and Lake Shore light. And if you were a cyclist, it wasn't sufficient induction to trigger the loop in the asphalt. I used to dismount, and just run across on the red. There wasn't even a pedestrian button to change the cycle. The most I could be nailed for is pedestrian against a red, not a vehicle, and any JP would dismiss the charge.

As for the West Donlands, I keep trying to 'give it a chance'...and then hear visitors takes on it (I mean overseas visitors) and the Emperor's Clothes vapourize. It's bleak, stark, dirty in spots, and certainly doesn't have cyclists in mind. The cycling connections are worse than what used to be there when Bayview looped down past the tannery and rendering plants.
 
steveintoronto said:
The one that was glacial for years (don't know if it's changed now, I avoid it) was the (north leg) Cherry and Lake Shore light. And if you were a cyclist, it wasn't sufficient induction to trigger the loop in the asphalt. I used to dismount, and just run across on the red. There wasn't even a pedestrian button to change the cycle. The most I could be nailed for is pedestrian against a red, not a vehicle, and any JP would dismiss the charge.

As for the West Donlands, I keep trying to 'give it a chance'...and then hear visitors takes on it (I mean overseas visitors) and the Emperor's Clothes vapourize. It's bleak, stark, dirty in spots, and certainly doesn't have cyclists in mind. The cycling connections are worse than what used to be there when Bayview looped down past the tannery and rendering plants.
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What emperor's clothes? Nobody is trying to fool you. This is an area that was a literal wasteland 10 years ago, is largely a construction site now, and still has multiple developments to come. Considering the location, sandwiched among massive parking lots near the distillery, car dealerships, and what is still a downtrodden area of Corktown, I think it's actually quite lively.

But don't take my word for it. Look at the blank spaces:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6534431,-79.3547694,561m/data=!3m1!1e3

Let us recall that 15 years ago the entertainment district was largely abandoned warehouses where nobody went except on weekends for nightclubs.
 
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I agree it’s a work in progress, with a lot of vacant lots left to build on. But surely we have to agree that the new public realm there is pretty good. The sidewalks aren’t ridiculously narrow, and they’re well paved. The Cherry streetcar runs on a separate ROW. There’s some decent public space. By some miracle, the electrical wires were buried. The place isn’t aggressively ugly. There’s a successfully completed transit expansion with the Cherry branch of the King streetcar. By Toronto standards, these are all huge wins.
 
mcornett said:
Let us recall that 15 years ago the entertainment district was largely abandoned warehouses where nobody went except on weekends for nightclubs.
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Just artists and creative types. And I was, and still am one.

Do you think these areas were devoid of life and meaning before 'The Great Enlightenment' of fancy artists' renditions which 'aren't there yet but they will be when it's built'? Renditions look great. The reality is more than somewhat wanting.

I guessed I missed the stage of societal development when iPhones, Starbucks, and 140 character texts described a "realm".

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...don-lands-m-s-dundeekilmer-kpmb.12822/page-59
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
Also keep in mind Fire and transportation won't like overly narrow ROWs either.

AoD
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Which is exactly the trite excuse being used against Laneway Housing.

Emergency Vehicle Access The concern with emergency vehicle access pertains to three issues: widths and turning radii within laneways, fear of servicing construction blocking access, and confusion of addressing. Our recommended performance standards require an access with a minimum width of 0.9m of unobstructed access be maintained through the principal yard to the main street so that emergency services can reach the unit from the street front and that they be permitted only within 45 m of curb access from a hydrant. By running water and electrical services from the principal residence, concerns of perpetual servicing construction on the laneway can be assuaged. Laneways can use the main home’s address with a prefix ‘R’ for ‘rear’ so mail, waste disposal, and emergency access can all be accommodated and easily located via the principal residence.
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https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/97ac-Laneway-Suits.pdf
 
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Earlier today

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