The population of Pawtucket is 75k people. Mississauga has at least 700k. We’re talking a 10x difference. Or how about other places our size have cfl, nhl, mlb teams. But here we’re talking about a minor minor sports team. I think that’s a mistake.

Again we are also taking not only about what we’re building but where we are building. This land is a limited resource.
FYI the CPL is considered by FIFA to be the same level as the MLS. The CPL is Canada's top-tier men's soccer league, and the MLS is the USA's top tier sports league (we just happen to have 3 Canadian teams in that league). CPL teams have played MLS teams on numerous occasions and have won numerous times (Can Champs for example). The league is young, but will grow as soccer is Canada's #1 sport by participation.

I know not many people here have been to Halifax before, but going to a HFX Wanderers game will sell you on the league's vision. About 7,000 attendees every game for their downtown stadium with zero parking and a blast.
 
FYI the CPL is considered by FIFA to be the same level as the MLS. The CPL is Canada's top-tier men's soccer league, and the MLS is the USA's top tier sports league (we just happen to have 3 Canadian teams in that league). CPL teams have played MLS teams on numerous occasions and have won numerous times (Can Champs for example). The league is young, but will grow as soccer is Canada's #1 sport by participation.

I know not many people here have been to Halifax before, but going to a HFX Wanderers game will sell you on the league's vision. About 7,000 attendees every game for their downtown stadium with zero parking and a blast.
I disagree.Regardless of what FIFA in their political wisdom thinks, CPL will not approach the consistent quality of MLS, and CPL players will move along as they gain scouted attention, as they do now. The overall records of the matches played between the two leagues will depend on the quality of the players fielded for each match, and as on any league, certain players will be rested, and others may play in matches that do. It have a direct impact on league standings. You see upsets in contests such as FA matches, you will see the same here.

Regardless of the league, attendance can be strong for either. And if we support footie in this country, as we do junior hockey and others, they should be. People may shrug at 7,000 paid attendance for a game, but depending on the league, team and venue, that can be a great crowd supporting a strong program.
 
Current view of the site on November 23rd
1732458462454.jpeg
 
I disagree.Regardless of what FIFA in their political wisdom thinks, CPL will not approach the consistent quality of MLS, and CPL players will move along as they gain scouted attention, as they do now. The overall records of the matches played between the two leagues will depend on the quality of the players fielded for each match, and as on any league, certain players will be rested, and others may play in matches that do. It have a direct impact on league standings. You see upsets in contests such as FA matches, you will see the same here.

Regardless of the league, attendance can be strong for either. And if we support footie in this country, as we do junior hockey and others, they should be. People may shrug at 7,000 paid attendance for a game, but depending on the league, team and venue, that can be a great crowd supporting a strong program.
The CPL is by definition the Tier 1 league in Canada. There are no ifs, buts, or whatevers about it.

The level may not reach that of MLS, but what it does offer is way more places for professional minutes to be played in Canada, whereas before players were slipping through the cracks due to lack of places to gain playing time and develop. The three MLS clubs cannot do it all for Canada. Additionally, it is 8 more organizations for coaching, scouting, and administrative talents to find employment in the sport in Canada, which I believe will lead to the creation of an overall ecosystem for soccer in this country. I think ultimately, the CPL being the top-tier professional league in the country will result it in finding an equilibrium level below MLS but above the USL and MLS NextPro, which are regarded as Tier 3 in the United States. Basically, above lower division and reserve league soccer, but still a development-oriented league that will export talent to the MLS primarily.

Relevant to this board, the expansion of the CPL can also be an opportunity for real estate development, community development, and TOD outcomes in cities across the country. There is a very healthy track record of MLS and USL accomplishing this in the United States and Canada already.

Last relevant point here but soccer is much more of a farebox revenue oriented sport. Most teams can stay afloat and even be income-generating (depending on efficiency of the organization) by having a healthy attendance in the 5-10k range. I think CPL has showed in some markets that it can get there (Halifax, Ottawa, Hamilton, Calgary). The York United experiment was an abject failure at community organization, but I have always believed a well-marketed team in Mississauga or Scarborough (and probably other parts of the GTHA) would surprise everyone and easily reach >10k attendance.
 
The CPL is by definition the Tier 1 league in Canada. There are no ifs, buts, or whatevers about it.

The level may not reach that of MLS, but what it does offer is way more places for professional minutes to be played in Canada, whereas before players were slipping through the cracks due to lack of places to gain playing time and develop. The three MLS clubs cannot do it all for Canada. Additionally, it is 8 more organizations for coaching, scouting, and administrative talents to find employment in the sport in Canada, which I believe will lead to the creation of an overall ecosystem for soccer in this country. I think ultimately, the CPL being the top-tier professional league in the country will result it in finding an equilibrium level below MLS but above the USL and MLS NextPro, which are regarded as Tier 3 in the United States. Basically, above lower division and reserve league soccer, but still a development-oriented league that will export talent to the MLS primarily.

Relevant to this board, the expansion of the CPL can also be an opportunity for real estate development, community development, and TOD outcomes in cities across the country. There is a very healthy track record of MLS and USL accomplishing this in the United States and Canada already.

Last relevant point here but soccer is much more of a farebox revenue oriented sport. Most teams can stay afloat and even be income-generating (depending on efficiency of the organization) by having a healthy attendance in the 5-10k range. I think CPL has showed in some markets that it can get there (Halifax, Ottawa, Hamilton, Calgary). The York United experiment was an abject failure at community organization, but I have always believed a well-marketed team in Mississauga or Scarborough (and probably other parts of the GTHA) would surprise everyone and easily reach >10k attendance.
Why if something was a failure in York do you think it would be successful in Scarborough or Mississauga.
 
Why if something was a failure in York do you think it would be successful in Scarborough or Mississauga.
I'm not a York United insider but basically that club's launch was pretty much a disaster.

First, there appears to be little "York" identity to work with for beginners. Most people don't even associate themselves with Vaughan or Markham for that matter let alone York Region. Most would rather associate with Maple, Unionville, Woodbridge, Thornhill, etc. as those other municipalities is a more recent product of amalgamation. At the beginning, the team name and marketing was "York 9" trying to be a cute counterpart to the Toronto Six boroughs, but it was always a bit of a pushed identity. This failed to capture the imagination, which led to their rebranding as "York United", but again there is no sense of York Region identity. Someone from Newmarket would not feel a connection that "this is my team".

Second, the stadium location at York University just outright sucked with the target demographic they were going for. It is inaccessible to 90% of York Region, and not even located even in York Region. So York United? Yeah right... Imagine trying to drive to York University for a game from Markham or Richmond Hill, let alone Newmarket or Georgina.

Third, the marketing for this team was very poorly done from day 1 and not many people even knew the team existed, then Covid overlapping with the league's beginnings really didn't help much either.

Fourth, this is anecdotal, but I heard that there was very little effort done in outreach with the local soccer parents compared to other clubs, even despite some attempts by local soccer camps to try to get involved and arrange youth days, etc., which additionally put off the one local demographic that would have came to games. There are a lot of soccer camps out in Vaughan-Woodbridge areas so that was a slam-dunk and a miss.

Finally, they've tried to re-market the team as something Toronto related now, abandoning the few who did show up among the York Region "fanbase". But it runs into the same problems again. For anyone in Toronto, "this is not my team, and you started off as this York Region thing so why should I care?". Now, they want to relocate to a new stadium at Woodbine Casino lands, which hilariously enough is isolated and inaccessible to 90% of Toronto. They do not seem to be learning from mistakes.

I think the experience of York United wrongfully put off the league to expanding into the 3 MLS markets for a while, and I believe that is unfortunate. The York United problems are specific to them and do not have to be universal. I believe strongly that a brand new team that captured grassroots support and engaged local community groups and was savvy with their marketing and advertising would capture the imagination in specifically Scarborough and Mississauga (probably also in Brampton, North York, and elsewhere in the GTA), and that these teams could even end up topping the CPL in attendance much to the surprise of everyone. People forget what a behemoth the Toronto market is.
 
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Great shot. Here is a very quick and dirty edit with a 10,000-seat Bear wood modular stadium imposed on the picture.

View attachment 614807
Thank you for the mock-up. For clarity here’s a satellite image to scale with a typical sized pitch.
IMG_3092.jpeg

I know this will enable some to beg for even more seating, but I’d rather we get that smaller 10’000 seater and build a nice public plaza on the grounds.
 
Thank you for the mock-up. For clarity here’s a satellite image to scale with a typical sized pitch.
View attachment 614822
I know this will enable some to beg for even more seating, but I’d rather we get that smaller 10’000 seater and build a nice public plaza on the grounds.
I think they Mayor said 7,500 is the goal, smaller than the picture I posted. Agree and hope the public realm is really nice.
 
PPP is the answer my friend.. public money is almost always a "shoe string" offering.. if want to see big things happening you need sponsors! .. private, corporate doesn't matter! AirCan/Scotia Arena couldn't have happen just on gov't budget..
 
PPP is the answer my friend.. public money is almost always a "shoe string" offering.. if want to see big things happening you need sponsors! .. private, corporate doesn't matter! AirCan/Scotia Arena couldn't have happen just on gov't budget..
Oh definitely, we can see just how well PPP is working for governments of all stripes these days. They are really getting the most BANG for their buck. And successive buck after that, and buck after that,....
 
Pesky little flaw in this argument - PPP is not meant to work well for 'governments'.
If they don't like it because there is not enough BANG for 'them', then maybe ask the actual Public for an opinion?
Yeah.. that is the second 'P' out of three.. :)
 

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