[doady]

A subway to Square One would do even less for street life in MCC than BRT would, since stores' potential customer base would be funneled underground, not in view of condofront shops, to a station which would exit directly into Mississauga's largest shopping centre.

Even if a transit line is aboveground and at-grade, it would still be difficult for people to do their shopping from the inside of a transit vehicle. Chances are, they would have to actually get out of the transit vehicle, walk, and enter a store first. Not only that, they would have had to walk to get to a transit station to get onto the transit vehicle in the first place.

 

[CDL.TO]

It should be clear to anyone who's spent any time there that MCC needs a high-order rail transit solution to be successful into the future. A busway simply isn't going to cut it.

And we also need a way to get people from all over the GTA to the thousands of jobs in Meadowvale, including the Canadian headquarters of Siemens, Microsoft, Loblaw, DuPont, General Electric, Glaxxo SmithKline, Biovail, and others plus the huge RBC complex. The employment in this area is only going to grow, the land on both sides of the 401 from Mississauga to Milton are zoned for employment lands.

 

[RedRocket191]

How about REX/s-bahn/regional rail/pendeltag/overground?

It could serve the same objectives as the subway, with the eastern half of the busway being replaced by an extension of the eglinton-crosstown line.

That's my prediction of what the future transit-scape of MCC will be.

 

[Tuscani01]

How about REX/s-bahn/regional rail/pendeltag/overground?

It could serve the same objectives as the subway, with the eastern half of the busway being replaced by an extension of the eglinton-crosstown line.

That's my prediction of what the future transit-scape of MCC will be.

You keep forgetting about a subway on Mavis!

 

[CDL.TO]

How about REX/s-bahn/regional rail/pendeltag/overground?

It could serve the same objectives as the subway, with the eastern half of the busway being replaced by an extension of the eglinton-crosstown line.

That's my prediction of what the future transit-scape of MCC will be.

Exactly! It could serve a wider area than the subway, be faster, and more attractive.

I could see a partnership with a REX service operating as a Mississauga Transit route between the Milton border and Kipling, allowing MT to switch to a hub-and-spoke system for their buses. It could potentially be cheaper for Mississauga taxpayers than hundreds of buses all running to MCC and Kipling.

(BTW: I love how you mention "Pendeltag". Other good ones are "S-tog" and "T-Bane".)

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Even if a transit line is aboveground and at-grade, it would still be difficult for people to do their shopping from the inside of a transit vehicle. Chances are, they would have to actually get out of the transit vehicle, walk, and enter a store first. Not only that, they would have had to walk to get to a transit station to get onto the transit vehicle in the first place.

You've never taken a detour from your travels to spontaneously shop in a store you saw while commuting on a bus or streetcar because it caught your eye? Potential customer base is reliant on getting seen and noticed, being located on prime, visible real estate. A MT BRT line garners greater visibility of the street life enroute to MCC, a subway guarantees dark wallscapes. Furthermore, there'd be no incentive for visitors to support local businessowners if every amenity imaginable is provided by the countless chain conglomerates in the mall, where a subway would naturally stop.

 

[RedRocket191]

I could see a partnership with a REX service operating as a Mississauga Transit route between the Milton border and Kipling, allowing MT to switch to a hub-and-spoke system for their buses. It could potentially be cheaper for Mississauga taxpayers than hundreds of buses all running to MCC and Kipling.

That brings up a fairly interesting idea. Since REX would likely be operated as a GO branded service, but would be operated as "the subway of the suburbs", could we modify the GO fare scheme to have the fare zones tied to municipal boundaries and municipal fares?

I.E, say you start at Meadowvale... You would pay $3.00 (for example) and you can go as far as Dixie. To continue on to Union, it would be a dollar more. Transfer to go to Pickering it would be another dollar more, ect.

Just throwing this out there. It helps address the GO fare zone problems, this scheme has its issues as well.

 

[CDL.TO]

That brings up a fairly interesting idea. Since REX would likely be operated as a GO branded service, but would be operated as "the subway of the suburbs", could we modify the GO fare scheme to have the fare zones tied to municipal boundaries and municipal fares?

I.E, say you start at Meadowvale... You would pay $3.00 (for example) and you can go as far as Dixie. To continue on to Union, it would be a dollar more. Transfer to go to Pickering it would be another dollar more, ect.

Just throwing this out there. It helps address the GO fare zone problems, this scheme has its issues as well.

You could propose something like that. Anything that sees a great decrease in revenue for GO will be a tough sell.

However, I'm pointing out that even if not a single thing changed with the GO fare system, it could potentially be cheaper for Mississauga to subsidize GO than for MT to operate their own buses duplicating the route. Like TTC operating on behalf of YRT.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

GO Transit already is the "Subway of the Suburbs". In fact better than a subway. What subway could get one from Hurontario (Main) and Highway 7 (Queen) in under 45 mins? Your plan makes alot of sense although I don't know how one would go about enforcing it. People fare evade all the time. Both the Milton and Georgetown lines could offer flat fares for all stations in Peel Region. I personally would want complete fare integration with the TTC or subsidized fares with proof of payment from one operator or the other.

 

[RedRocket191]

To combat fare evasion, we could take a London based idea and raise it up a knotch.

Assuming we have a fare by distance scheme:

You use your fare card to tap in. You get charged $25 dollars. When you tap out, you get refunded the difference.

Its just one of many possible ways to look at it.

Just like I was saying earlier, MT and the Transitway should be considered one system for fare integration purposes. I would extend this to eventually include all 905 transit. The 416 transit should be a second fare system, but the cost to transfer between those systems should be reduced to a pittance. Perhaps a single dollar as a first step with eyes to keep reducing it as more cash is invested.

The real challenge will be integrating GO. Of course, it should be a pittance to transfer from GO to local transit, and you should get a significant discount if you ride local to the GO station (with Presto, we'll probably have to run it as a refund scheme, since it won't know you were going to the GO station until you actually get there).

But, changing GO's fare system will depending on if we want GO to be a commuter system to get downtown, or if we want it to be a regional express service that mimics the TTC subway.

Those thoughts might have been jumbled, I hope everyone could follow.

 

[urbanfan89]

How about REX/s-bahn/regional rail/pendeltag/overground?

It could serve the same objectives as the subway, with the eastern half of the busway being replaced by an extension of the eglinton-crosstown line.

That's my prediction of what the future transit-scape of MCC will be.

I disagree.

No part of the transitway will be friendly to walk-in ridership, unless hydro lines and freeways start attracting dense development.

Any high-grade rail system will need a large proportion of walk-in ridership to support all-day service.

Therefore, extending the Eglinton line west will turn out worse than Sorbara's Vaughan subway.

What's so difficult about taking GO to Cooksville and seamlessly transferring to the Hurontario LRT line?

At the most a tunnelled branch from the CP line to MCC will satisfy all our needs.

 

[CDL.TO]

GO Transit already is the "Subway of the Suburbs". In fact better than a subway. What subway could get one from Hurontario (Main) and Highway 7 (Queen) in under 45 mins? Your plan makes alot of sense although I don't know how one would go about enforcing it. People fare evade all the time. Both the Milton and Georgetown lines could offer flat fares for all stations in Peel Region. I personally would want complete fare integration with the TTC or subsidized fares with proof of payment from one operator or the other.

Well, it certainly isn't a subway when it runs only 6 times a day (each way). We can't start calling it that until service gets up to (at least) every 20 minutes all day.

Enforce fares the same way that GO does now.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Well, it certainly isn't a subway when it runs only 6 times a day (each way). We can't start calling it that until service gets up to (at least) every 20 minutes all day.

Enforce fares the same way that GO does now.

Yes but GO is still in the business seeking financial pay-off for every trip it routes. Ever see how sparsely occupied the 9:15, 10:15, 12:15 eastbounds from Bramalea Stn are? Transit can only do so much if people are still unwilling to give their cars a rest and give it a try. GO bus services are also underused in spite of routing trips at least once per hour to most major destinations.

20 min frequency would help garner public trust in GO's reliability, however when routing on shared corridors it'd be difficult to work everything out logistically with other train operators on the same corridor. That's one of the main issues preventing all-day, bi-directional operations on the Georgetown Line.

Whatever the case it'd sure save multibillions if we'd just reorganize the transit regimes in place now instead of building out wasteful subway extension that already mimic existing GO lines (BD West- Milton GO, SRT- Stoufville GO, YUS West- Barrie South GO, YUS primary, Sheppard- Richmond Hill GO).

 

[RedRocket191]

20 min frequency would help garner public trust in GO's reliability, however when routing on shared corridors it'd be difficult to work everything out logistically with other train operators on the same corridor. That's one of the main issues preventing all-day, bi-directional operations on the Georgetown Line.

Will building one or two extra tracks be enough to prevent delays, or will we have to go to freight-free corridors (obviously, with a new freight-only bypass)? When I proposed that idea on another board, I was almost run out of town.

The number of tracks we'll need will add up very quickly, and we need to ask ourselves if we want a four/five/six track right-of-way through places like downtown Brampton, Streetsville, Georgetown or Milton.

Back to the Transitway... I hope that they don't build it, throw up their arms and say "we're done." Burnhamthorpe, Bloor and possibly even Rathburn could use BRT, even with the Transitway completed.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Will building one or two extra tracks be enough to prevent delays, or will we have to go to freight-free corridors (obviously, with a new freight-only bypass)? When I proposed that idea on another board, I was almost run out of town.

The number of tracks we'll need will add up very quickly, and we need to ask ourselves if we want a four/five/six track right-of-way through places like downtown Brampton, Streetsville, Georgetown or Milton.

Back to the Transitway... I hope that they don't build it, throw up their arms and say "we're done." Burnhamthorpe, Bloor and possibly even Rathburn could use BRT, even with the Transitway completed.

Burhamthrope, Bloor AND Rathburn? Too many east-west roadways occuring in the same general vicinity. Burhamthrope alone is what I'd advocate, as it's the most direct path. People love throwing around "BD extension along Dundas E" alot around here, so why not test the viability of MCC-Dundas-Kipling with all-day frequent BRT service along that route. It's a unnecessary impedence for 19S travellers to not just make the connection at Square One, since you'll be parked there for several mins anyway.

About shared corridors, yes it'd be ideal to build new commuter-only railways but the question remains where the heck to put them in our NIMBY/LULU-centric society ?