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Still waiting for Keesmaat to stop trying to drive a wedge between urban and suburban voters. Probably will still be waiting after the election as well.


The irony of the Gardiner proposal is that it actively makes the areas LESS safe due to having high speed cars driving through the area. But whatever it the remove Gardiner option looks good in the renderings I will give it that.
 
steveintoronto said:
I'm getting a little irritated at the number of posters who can't read the details linked, and then persist in asking others to do it for them.

Keesmaat and the City Staff plan is for *east of Jarvis*.
Tear down Gardiner east of Jarvis, new report says
Click to expand...
For now this is true. 10 years down the road when the traffic bottlenecks at Jarvis people will call for the rest of the highway to be torn down. I am not stupid enough to believe that it will be ONLY the east portion of the Gardiner in the long term.
 
CP24 is doing a segment about a seniors debate that was cancelled. Tory directly called out Sears and Goldy for their white supremacist views and Keesmaat said the same thing in a statement.
 
Thorns_Embrace said:
The irony of the Gardiner proposal is that it actively makes the areas LESS safe due to having high speed cars driving through the area.
Click to expand...
Hasn't happened in the section already torn down.
Thorns_Embrace said:
I am not stupid enough to believe that it will be ONLY the east portion of the Gardiner in the long term.
Click to expand...
What has that to do with now? Let me reiterate: Tory's plan is to tear down the same section, and rebuild it as a new elevated section further north. Keesmaat's plan is to tear it down and replace it with a "boulevard"...just like what's been done already to the east of there.
 
Fresco said:
Right, but I'm talking about the entire Gardiner.
Many people wanna do away with that whole monstrosity altogether
Click to expand...
My apologies, completely my mistake. I thought you were agreeing with Filip. Eventually, that will have to happen. The costs outweigh the benefits if looked at long-term.

For now though, Keesmaat's challenge will be to sell the section earmarked for replacement as elevated, and make it a boulevard.
 
I know she said east of Jarvis, but what does she think will happen on that Grand Avenue if the elevated section is removed? It all leads to the same 4 lanes in each direction, it's not a solution it is a diversion. Lakeshore is already 4 lanes and is congested. The Gardiner is a stink bomb that we can not live without. In my little neighbourhood all the traffic bottle necked is trying to get on the Gardiner, heading west, from 4pm onwards, it's stupid congested. WESTWARD. To say elevated roadways are useless is absurd, we can't build a city based on road side bistros or skate board parks, the leisure has to be paid for by something.
All those lovely new build condos in the west end have to be paid for with a mortgage and by extension a job! While King St is now a lovely leisurely walk once you get to Front all you get traffic, traffic, traffic. The so-called pilot project has been assessed with very narrow criteria, namely streetcar and vehicle traffic, where does the Mayor think all those cars that were using King St went to? Evaporated into thin air? I don't think so. The city centre is more congested even with the York on-ramp and it is NOT getting better. On Friday & Saturday night the Jarvis w/b ramp was closed for repair/? and the cars were crammed onto the Esplanade trying to get to Yonge and south to Lakeshore or the Gardiner, it was apocalyptic.
 
steveintoronto said:
My apologies, completely my mistake. I thought you were agreeing with Filip. Eventually, that will have to happen. The costs outweigh the benefits if looked at long-term.

For now though, Keesmaat's challenge will be to sell the section earmarked for replacement as elevated, and make it a boulevard.
Click to expand...
I didn’t think I needed to clarify eastern Gardiner. That was never the discussion.

The amount of traffic on the eastern Gardiner would need to be accommodated by a 10 lane road. Anything less would cause traffic jams for miles. That’s a connection between two major highways. The only way in and out of the downtown core.
 
steveintoronto said:
Hasn't happened in the section already torn down.
Click to expand...
OK so lets compare the differences. between this section of the Gardiner and that previously torn down section.
The old section you would be driving along Lakeshore Road at 50 km/h before getting on the Gardiner at lesie. After it was town down it just became a flat 50 km/h through the whole section.
In the current teardown plan cars would be driving 90 on the DVP. Then they will then be forced to reduce there speed to 50 km/h for a 3 km section and then speeding back up to 90 at Jarvis. I believe most cars will not drive the speedlimit in this section of highway, and the the proof that cars do not follow the speed limit is everywhere and is a major problem that pedestrian advocates do not have a solution to.

Also Keesmaat is planning on reducing speedlimits to 30 km/h in the downtown which just compounds this problem from both a safety angle and and it will further increase commute times more than the current estimates based on a 50 km/h road.
steveintoronto said:
What has that to do with now? Let me reiterate: Tory's plan is to tear down the same section, and rebuild it as a new elevated section further north. Keesmaat's plan is to tear it down and replace it with a "boulevard"...just like what's been done already to the east of there.
Click to expand...
He is planning on rebuilding it it stages, and probably allowing for a few lanes to be open during the construction. While you are technically right that he wants to "tear it down" the two plans are not close to comparable in terms of inconvenience to drivers.
 
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King of Kensington said:
I support tearing down the eastern Gardiner. Keesmaat is right on this one
Click to expand...
How about building a tunnel underneath Lakeshore first, from the Don Roadway all the way to Dufferin.
(similar to what they have downtown Montreal).

Then once the tunnel is complete, redirect all traffic through the tunnel and then dismantle the Gardiner piece by piece.
The land can then be sold to condo developers for billions of $$ to recoup the cost of the tunnel.

And voila, problem solved
 
bwahahaa! I'd forgotten about the 30mph punchline, God how I laughed! And I'm a pedestrian! Like I said I am not convinced she actually wants to be Mayor, some of the stuff she comes up with is, quite simply, laughable.
 
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