Good to know that criticizing renzo piano will solicit the same reactions as when I told a guy that Quentin Tarantino wasn’t all that great. I find it really interesting that unlike other threads where folks express concerns about design and it encourages discussion, this one just results in dudes doubling down on how great renzo piano is.

Stan culture is weird!
 
Good to know that criticizing renzo piano will solicit the same reactions as when I told a guy that Quentin Tarantino wasn’t all that great. I find it really interesting that unlike other threads where folks express concerns about design and it encourages discussion, this one just results in dudes doubling down on how great renzo piano is.

Stan culture is weird!
I could repeat my stance on all those threads, would it make you feel better? People should hold off their (negative) judgement until a building is complete.
 
I could repeat my stance on all those threads, would it make you feel better? People should hold off their (negative) judgement until a building is complete.

Yeah I’m afraid that isn’t how things work in real life as demonstrated by the numerous people who decry buildings as write offs the second The first panels of window wall are added. I’m more than willing to give this one a shot and I look forward to seeing it completed, but saying criticisms of the design or plans isn’t acceptable because the project isn’t’ done yet is incredibly silly.
 
More colour images of the updated design on the IO project page, though they're all a bit small:
Artistic_Rendering_of__New_Toronto_Court_House_4.png

Artistic_Rendering_of_-New_Toronto_Court_House_Daylight.png

Photograph_of_New_Toronto_Court_House.png

Source
 
I think this will turn out to be a really good (yet important) background building.

Kinda funny though that we finally got a Renzo Piano and it is a relatively tame courthouse building.
 
I think this will turn out to be a really good (yet important) background building.

Kinda funny though that we finally got a Renzo Piano and it is a relatively tame courthouse building.

And I am ok with that given the alternative *cringe*. Having said so, I'd wish we can redevelop the University Avenue facing Superior Court.

AoD
 
At risk of stating the obvious, part of this discussion will never be resolved because it's emblematic of a perpetual tension in architecture, which is the question of who are the most "important" arbiters of the "quality" of a building. The irony (and, depending on how one looks at it, shortcoming) of much contemporary architectural critique is that the buildings that industry professionals and critics tend to like (painting both with very broad strokes, of course) and those that "the masses" tend to like are often quite separate.

In my experience, most laypeople (I don't use that term pejoratively here) sort of hate some of the buildings that are some of my favourites, like Rogers' Lloyd's building or the Piano/Rogers co-pro Pompidou; on multiple occasions, I have walked by each of those buildings and expressed my love for them to the non-arch geeks I was with, only to have them tell me that I have terrible taste and that those buildings "don't even look finished."

And, on the flipside, similarly non-geek-type friends have repeatedly expressed to me their love for, say, some of the swoopy Zaha buildings that I find to be unrefined and overwrought. (This is obviously a reductionist and imperfect illustration, but there are many other examples of similar divergences in popular vs. niche opinion.)

I totally get that when we finally get a Piano in the city, folks would like it to be more than a background building -- I absolutely share that sentiment. But I also think that there is value in seeing buildings that don't have a grand architectural flair or an aggressively obvious parti added to the landscape in Toronto, both because so much of our architecture deeply lacks for excellent detailing and also because it provides an opportunity for the design-obsessed to educate the non-geeks -- or at least to inform them with respect to what it is we like about certain buildings that don't necessarily catch non-geek eyes.

All is to say, I think all of the following can be simultaneously true:
> It's great to have a Piano-designed building in Toronto and we'd love to have more of them;
> It would be great if the next Piano-designed building in Toronto were more of a showcase;
> It's totally reasonable to celebrate the expected superior quality in detailing we're likely to get here;
> A lot of folks nonetheless won't think this is anything more than a glass box;
> This building should provide a good opportunity for fellow geeks (I use that term endearingly throughout) to bring along some of their friends, colleagues, or acquaintances and help them see and critique their built environment through a new lens.
 
At risk of stating the obvious, part of this discussion will never be resolved because it's emblematic of a perpetual tension in architecture, which is the question of who are the most "important" arbiters of the "quality" of a building. The irony (and, depending on how one looks at it, shortcoming) of much contemporary architectural critique is that the buildings that industry professionals and critics tend to like (painting both with very broad strokes, of course) and those that "the masses" tend to like are often quite separate.

In my experience, most laypeople (I don't use that term pejoratively here) sort of hate some of the buildings that are some of my favourites, like Rogers' Lloyd's building or the Piano/Rogers co-pro Pompidou; on multiple occasions, I have walked by each of those buildings and expressed my love for them to the non-arch geeks I was with, only to have them tell me that I have terrible taste and that those buildings "don't even look finished."

And, on the flipside, similarly non-geek-type friends have repeatedly expressed to me their love for, say, some of the swoopy Zaha buildings that I find to be unrefined and overwrought. (This is obviously a reductionist and imperfect illustration, but there are many other examples of similar divergences in popular vs. niche opinion.)

I totally get that when we finally get a Piano in the city, folks would like it to be more than a background building -- I absolutely share that sentiment. But I also think that there is value in seeing buildings that don't have a grand architectural flair or an aggressively obvious parti added to the landscape in Toronto, both because so much of our architecture deeply lacks for excellent detailing and also because it provides an opportunity for the design-obsessed to educate the non-geeks -- or at least to inform them with respect to what it is we like about certain buildings that don't necessarily catch non-geek eyes.

All is to say, I think all of the following can be simultaneously true:
> It's great to have a Piano-designed building in Toronto and we'd love to have more of them;
> It would be great if the next Piano-designed building in Toronto were more of a showcase;
> It's totally reasonable to celebrate the expected superior quality in detailing we're likely to get here;
> A lot of folks nonetheless won't think this is anything more than a glass box;
> This building should provide a good opportunity for fellow geeks (I use that term endearingly throughout) to bring along some of their friends, colleagues, or acquaintances and help them see and critique their built environment through a new lens.


There are some really interesting points here, and ones that I think all can fundamentally understand about the nature of this upcoming building. I think that the easy takedown of this project is attributed to the fact that this is after all a Renzo building, and many of his past projects in render or conceptual imagery form don't really convey the magic of what is to come.

Take the case study of the Art Institute of Chicago, for example. From afar or from any general image, this building is arguably not one that will catch much attention or captivate one's interest. To use your term above, 'laypeople' will not generally be excited about an image like the one below. When I first visited this building in the flesh, I was absolutely astonished and mesmerized by the attention to detail and incredible thoughtfulness of things otherwise never thought about. To consider the effort needed to perfectly align a glass balustrade joint line with a hyper thin tensegrity cable that is centered on its corresponding purlin which also aligns with a control joint of stone cladding, is close to unfathomable. It's detailing, yes, but it's also human craft that reminds us about the potential of focused architecture. And perhaps for some of those laypeople, it will inspire the uninspired. (also note, i am not thinking the courthouse is equal to this building, just using as a case study.)

So I think that though we can pass opinion at this stage and it is merited, it is also worthy to wait and see as many have mentioned. The distinction here, I think, is that this building just can't be measured in an apples to apples way with the way we assess other projects in Toronto, or anywhere for that matter.

art-institute-of-chicago.jpg
 
On a tangential note - the province just canned the Halton Courthouse project. Thank the lucky stars this went ahead prior....

AoD

I'm a litigation lawyer. I hope they're installing full IT infrastructure and cameras / audio equipment in the courtrooms because I can guarantee you virtual hearings will be the norm going forward.
 

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