junctionist said:
I haven't looked into the government's planning requirements for new courthouses, but my experience with recent courthouses has been that they've put the hallways by the windows in the case of the new Durham Courthouse in Oshawa and the new Brampton courthouse, with the courtrooms towards the centre of the building with no windows.
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Same is true for this project - I think those are passageways used only by judges.

IO's Winter 2020 Update - nothing you didn't know already:

AoD
 
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junctionist said:
I would agree with your assessment of WZMH overall. But in defence of WZMH, they gave us the CN Tower, Royal York Plaza, and Scotia Plaza, which are world class landmarks.
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Key word here:
ADRM said:
This makes no sense. You're defending one rendering against another rendering by saying we need to wait to see how it turns out (which is essentially a self-defeating argument), and also implying that the entire corpus of a world renowned architecture firm (which itself is reputed for excellence in detailing) is irrelevant, weighed against a middling Canadian firm with a recent history of bland duds.
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Catching up with this thread and realizing that the structure was dumbed down substantially, I was at first disappointed at yet another potential beautiful building designed by a reputable firm, stripped of its interesting features — Torontofied. Then, I saw the facade mockup and that changed. This building will be reserved but it'll shine through in its finishings.

This is beautiful:

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Curtain wall with corrugated metallic back panels? Groundbreaking. Sure it will be detailed nicely, but I've said it before and I will say it again, to those outside of this forum without as much knowledge of architecture and materials, this will simply read as a glass box. The real winner here will be the interiors. I think this render from the database proves my point:

It doesn't matter how well detailed the precast and curtain wall fit together or how exciting the assembly of the window system is, nobody outside of this forum will stroll by this and go "Gee what an exciting, engaging design that is different from what we've seen around the city"

When you really look at the firms other projects like the Pars Courthouse, St Giles or the Academy Museum in LA, you start to realize how watered down this design really is.


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DavidCapizzano said:
It doesn't matter how well detailed the precast and curtain wall fit together or how exciting the assembly of the window system is, nobody outside of this forum will stroll by this and go "Gee what an exciting, engaging design that is different from what we've seen around the city"
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Craft matters - and I am not sure if anyone one should use the hoi polloi as the barometer of architecture.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Craft matters - I am not sure if anyone one should use the hoi polloi as the barometer of architecture.

AoD
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I typically agree, but I think it's because "the masses" haven't really been exposed to good, creatively challenging and thought provoking architecture in Toronto. Our local architecture writers also do very little to promote design literacy and improve peoples understanding of materials and architectural styles. I think writing off their opinions only increases the amount of cynicism and contempt people have for development. Craft certainly does matter, but it doesn't take an expert to recognize something different and exciting. This is after all, a public building.
 
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DavidCapizzano said:
I typically agree, but I think it's because "the masses" haven't really been exposed to good, creatively challenging and through provoking architecture in Toronto. I think writing off their opinions only increases the amount of cynicism and contempt people have for development.
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Those who cares about it will learn it themselves; those who doesn't wouldn't care one way or another. If anything this is a town where we can learn about the importance of craft (there are too many examples of architecture compromised by lack of attention to it). I am just thinking our lucky stars that we managed to get it out of a government P3 budget.

And to the latter point - it's a courthouse - I am not sure how much "thought provoking architecture" can be had in a risk-adverse institution as this (I doubt anyone here would stomach Rogers' Bordeaux Courthouse, Morphosis' Wayne Lyman Morse , etc.). Can't see anyone signing off on it - much less IO and the provincial government paying for it.

AoD
 
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Those who cares about it will learn it themselves; those who doesn't wouldn't care one way or another.
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I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with the second part of your statement. I think everyone has opinions about style and design, I just don't think everyone knows how to articulate it. We can build a design conscious culture if we want, but being cynical doesn't really help anyone anywhere.
 
DavidCapizzano said:
I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with the second part of your statement. I think everyone has opinions about style and design, I just don't think everyone knows how to articulate it. We can build a design conscious culture if we want, but being cynical doesn't really help anyone anywhere.
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Before we can build a design conscious culture - we need to build a culture where we value details and things built well. Being boring isn't awful - being boring and slipshod is unforgivable.

AoD
 
One need only look at literally any Renzo Piano build to know that it'll be full of wonderful details at a high-standard of quality.
 
I guess we'll just have to wait until it's done to really judge! Fortunately it seems to be moving quickly. I'm trying not using any of their previous works as a precedent here because this design is just so boring compared to what the firm is capable of doing. I think it would be more accurate to say that one need only look at literally any RPBW building to realize this one is kind of vanilla and conservative.
 
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DavidCapizzano said:
Curtain wall with corrugated metallic back panels? Groundbreaking.
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Look at it as a whole. Use your imagination and picture a whole building, not separate elements.

Once I saw the facade mockup, I could immediately picture the attention to detail and the layered finishes that will go into this.

DavidCapizzano said:
Sure it will be detailed nicely, but I've said it before and I will say it again, to those outside of this forum without as much knowledge of architecture and materials, this will simply read as a glass box.

It doesn't matter how well detailed the precast and curtain wall fit together or how exciting the assembly of the window system is, nobody outside of this forum will stroll by this and go "Gee what an exciting, engaging design that is different from what we've seen around the city"
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People appreciate beauty and craftsmanship when they see it. You don't have to be an expert in design or architecture to appreciate it, just like you don't have to be a painter or an art connoisseur to enjoy a beautiful painting.

I've seen other Renzo Piano buildings that are understated as a whole, but up close reveal their true beauty in the details and finishes.
 
MetroMan said:
Look at it as a whole. Use your imagination and picture a whole building, not separate elements.

Once I saw the facade mockup, I could immediately picture the attention to detail and the layered finishes that will go into this.



People appreciate beauty and craftsmanship when they see it. You don't have to be an expert in design or architecture to appreciate it, just like you don't have to be a painter or an art connoisseur to enjoy a beautiful painting.

I've seen other Renzo Piano buildings that are understated as a whole, but up close reveal their true beauty in the details and finishes.
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The building is quite far from being done. Can hold off on passing judgement until then?
 
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